Reflecting on SWTOR and XIV

[Gramul]

Don't think MMORPGs as a genre should be restricted to one playstyle or another.

I'm interested in how these open sandbox MMO's turn out.

[TomCarroll]

Like many people, I was super excited for SWTOR. I was invited to the closed beta and played for several months before release.

The common misconception about modern MMORPGs is that they all "copy" wow. SWTOR may have been a barebones copy of wow at best. Many of the gameplay elements bioware used had been abandoned by blizzard in vanilla.

People who don't play wow assume that everything is a copy, yet they don't realize that blizzard's greatest strength is their ability to keep reinventing their product. Every time I've played a new expansion in wow, I'm immediately forced to learn new mechanics. To me, this gives the game much more replay value, and it's a skill that no other developer has mastered the way blizzard has.

[indira]

lots of delusion on the forums today.

[Zumi]

Game genres have certain games that have set the standard for what those games should feel like. For example most FPS today feel like Halo or CoD why because those games set the current standard for FPS. When I play any FPS that isn't one of those games I get the same feeling and similar controls. When I sit down to play a 2d fighter it plays like Street Fighter, when I play a 3d fighter it usually plays like Tekken or Vitura Fighter. When I play a turn based RPG I expect something like the Final Fantasy games.

FFXIV was so broken at the beginning and didn't follow a lot of the basic mechanics that were already set by WoW and other similar MMOs that people just didn't like it. From animation lock to exp system that did work right randomly get SP some times you didn't other times SP gain would totally break and you have to relog, to a UI that was unresponsive and sluggish at best, very slow paced and unresponsive combat, lack of any kind of end game, no AH and people being told to look through hundreds of retainers for what they want to buy. FFXIV 1.0 was just way below the game industry stranded for MMOs. People left very fast cause of it. 1.0 wasn't some holy grail of originality it was a lot of broken stuff.

A problem with MMOs is people go through content very fast. SWTOR from what I heard didn't have enough stuff to do when you hit level cap. People very much liked the leveling process and all the voiced stuff they did but once you hit level cap people ran out of stuff to do. WoW on the other hand has a huge amount of endgame to do. Part of it has to do with their budget on these type of games. Because Blizzard has so many players they can afford to have a lot more content. It may be only every 6 months but when they release a content patch keeps players busy for quite awhile.

Another thing is attachment in WoW a lot of people get attached to their game they might try out other games when they are bored with the current patch on WoW but then they always go back to WoW when a new patch drops to try out the new content that gets added, since they already built up a lot of characters even more reason to go back.

[Jadi]

Game genres have certain games that have set the standard for what those games should feel like. For example most FPS today feel like Halo or CoD why because those games set the current standard for FPS. When I play any FPS that isn't one of those games I get the same feeling and similar controls. When I sit down to play a 2d fighter it plays like Street Fighter, when I play a 3d fighter it usually plays like Tekken or Vitura Fighter. When I play a turn based RPG I expect something like the Final Fantasy games.

FFXIV was so broken at the beginning and didn't follow a lot of the basic mechanics that were already set by WoW and other similar MMOs that people just didn't like it. From animation lock to exp system that did work right randomly get SP some times you didn't other times SP gain would totally break and you have to relog, to a UI that was unresponsive and sluggish at best, very slow paced and unresponsive combat, lack of any kind of end game, no AH and people being told to look through hundreds of retainers for what they want to buy. FFXIV 1.0 was just way below the game industry stranded for MMOs. People left very fast cause of it. 1.0 wasn't some holy grail of originality it was a lot of broken stuff.

A problem with MMOs is people go through content very fast. SWTOR from what I heard didn't have enough stuff to do when you hit level cap. People very much liked the leveling process and all the voiced stuff they did but once you hit level cap people ran out of stuff to do. WoW on the other hand has a huge amount of endgame to do. Part of it has to do with their budget on these type of games. Because Blizzard has so many players they can afford to have a lot more content. It may be only every 6 months but when they release a content patch keeps players busy for quite awhile.

Another thing is attachment in WoW a lot of people get attached to their game they might try out other games when they are bored with the current patch on WoW but then they always go back to WoW when a new patch drops to try out the new content that gets added, since they already built up a lot of characters even more reason to go back.

No, I agree with this, 1.x branch only really started to get good around 1.19 I think.. however lets assume that all the technical problems didn't exist in 1.0 and that things functioned the way they should have.. and lets assume things like mailboxes, player houses, transport and AH's would have existed if given time to develop them. We may have seen something quite new and interesting had this happened.. However since release changes were made (mostly in XI's favor) but some of these were new and quite good as well such as the combo system.

One of the big things I think XIV has in favor of WoW and SWTOR is that you can be any class. (actually several types of the same class now with jobs.) This gives you more attachment to your character identity something SE seems to feel strong about. I love this feature.

[Zumi]

One of the big things I think XIV has in favor of WoW and SWTOR is that you can be any class. (actually several types of the same class now with jobs.) This gives you more attachment to your character identity something SE seems to feel strong about. I love this feature.

I actually don't really mind the 1 class per character in other MMOs. Mainly cause I like making different characters let them be different races and genders. To me it was more fun playing different races and looking characters rather then the same one all the time. Guess its just a preference thing.

[Elexia]

I actually don't really mind the 1 class per character in other MMOs. Mainly cause I like making different characters let them be different races and genders. To me it was more fun playing different races and looking characters rather then the same one all the time. Guess its just a preference thing.

Pretty much, especially since more MMOs (asian ones at least) are adapting the multiple class per character model now, though still kinda limited.

[Jadi]

I actually don't really mind the 1 class per character in other MMOs. Mainly cause I like making different characters let them be different races and genders. To me it was more fun playing different races and looking characters rather then the same one all the time. Guess its just a preference thing.

Yea.. maybe we can get a way to alter ourselves somewhat.. currently there is gear to do so. And you know I'm also thinking that when you want to change your role for a class/job not only do you have the job stone to change but you modify your gear as well.. it's all very flexible but it takes time investment to get all the situational gear accumulated.

[Deakka]

Animation lock, ability delay, and the complete lack of end game killed SWTOR. Also adding 5 minutes of cutscenes just for you to go outside and kill 5 whomp rats /=/ revolutionary. They had a good idea and a great license, but failed on the follow through. The ME dialogue wheel doesn't translate very well into MMO's. You can't have everlasting consequences in an MMO (like alignment switches from good to evil, or order to chaos) without breaking the game, thus the choices are purely cosmetic.

Also, I saw some mention of sandbox MMO's as being the future in this thread. That's always been the delusion. Sandbox MMO's are almost exclusively niche products. They may be the best thing in the world, but they draw upon such a small audience. You have to give new players some direction in order to get them hooked and keep them subscribing. The best would be a mix of theme park leveling/end game, and sandbox elements sprinkled in elsewhere. Get people in with an enticing story and familiar controls, keep them sucked in with the sandbox elements afterword. Player housing, chocobo raising, and things of that nature will appeal to the sandbox crowd.

[Abriael]

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Also, I saw some mention of sandbox MMO's as being the future in this thread. That's always been the delusion. Sandbox MMO's are almost exclusively niche products.

This is, unfortunately, rather true. I am absolutely in love with ArcheAge after trying the beta. I know I'll play the hell out of it as soon as it makes the trip to this side of the world.

But I also know that it'll never be a smash hit. Most gamers love instant gratification, and that's what theme park MMOs offer.