CG Midlander

[Jinrya-Geki]

The paragon can only be...



or...

Ramuh. Of all the summons, everyone always listens to him. Even Ifrit in all his anger always seems to cool down when Ramuh asks him a favor, whenever the summons actually have some kind of dialouge.

[Bowen]

Ramuh. Of all the summons, everyone always listens to him. Even Ifrit in all his anger always seems to cool down when Ramuh asks him a favor, whenever the summons actually have some kind of dialouge.

Wait what? Since when?

[Fernehalwes]

On the gender issue, I'd go with not knowing the gender leading to an instinctive assumption. We all do it every day. If we don't know someone's gender, we take a stab: Usually make, unless you're more of a feminist, or perhaps envisiging them as a Miquo'te.

Thanks for pointing this out Catapult!

This was exactly what I was trying to get at when translating the purposefully ambiguous Japanese lines. Assuming that your Path Companion doesn't know who this Paragon is, he/she is going to use the pronoun that feels the most natural to him/her. When writing the 9 variations, I took into consideration the companion's personality, and chose a pronoun accordingly.

Now, while we're on the subject of pronouns...

Japanese is a unique language, in that it can completely omit the subject (and on occasion the object) of a sentence. Japanese writers (in particular, the writers on FFXIV) use this technique a lot to fudge the gender of a individual that they want to keep 'mysterious.' Another way of fudging comes by way of repeating the name of the subject in place of where we would use a pronoun.

For example: The Paragon tied the Paragon's shoes while reading a diary entry that the "gender-less entity that is the Paragon" wrote earlier that morning.

Now, I could throw that into the text files as-is, but I'd have Grammar Nazis poking me with their red-hot pitchforks, so I often find myself going to the original writers and asking them if it's OK to reveal the gender of a character through pronouns (usually for the sole reason of keeping the text natural-sounding, and avoiding the gender-neutral plural pronoun--they).

Then again, what if there was an even simpler answer?
When is a Paragon both a male and a female?

(from Anonymoose's post #327)
-> I overheard on the Ashcrown linkpearl that one of the Paragons was sighted in Thanalan
-> I have learned from the Ashcrown Consortium linkpearl that the sylphs have sighted one of the Paragons

(cue dramatic riff)


Have a good Turkey Day, guys!
Tryptophan is your friend!

[NoloeTazier]

When is a Paragon both a male and a female?

I knew it, they're snails.

Happy Thanksgiving to you too Ferne.

[Anonymoose]

This post took forever. I might just skip the other one and just leave it at Catapult is right. The Sharlayans refer to themselves as "we archons" like six times in that one scene. They're all Archons. Archons from from that guy who made Signs that one city state and all belong to the same club.

On to bigger matters.

Q1: Does the sign in the Path of the Twelve foreshadow Bahamut's prison?
Q2: Did The Twelve imprison Bahamut the first time?

We'll call the original prison Dalamud Prime and the attempt at resealing him Second Dalamud.

The "blades" launched by the prayer beacons are quite diverse. Some kinda fit the Twelve's symbols, some kinda fit their legendary equipment... I'm not really quite sure what to make of some of them - but if you want to give it a shot, go for it (cheat sheet below).

The pieces that fall out of Dalamud Prime are mostly just blank sticks. There are two that are a little more well defined; you can almost make the case for the one on the top far left looking like the crosses seen bottom center, and the one to the left of it looking like the the one in the vertical middle to the left of the harpoon. However, remember that these two anomalous spikes from Dalamud Prime show this morphology on the inside edge, where Second Dalamuds are on the outsides, where all of Prime's are, again, blank sticks.

CHEAT SHEET IF YOU WANNA TAKE A CRACK AT THIS

Azeyma (Warden): Symbol is the sun, hand holds a fan
Nophica (Matron): Symbol is a leaf, hand holds a scythe
Thaliak (Scholar): Symbol is a scroll, hand holds a staff
Llymlaen (Navigator): Symbol is a wave, hand holds a harpoon
Halone (Fury): Symbol is three spears, hand holds a shield
Byregot (Builder): Symbol is a hand, hand holds a hammer
Nald'thal (Traders): Symbil is a shell, hand holds a balance
Althyk (Keeper): Symbol is an hourglass, hand holds a greataxe
Nymeia (Spinner): Symbol and possession is a spinning wheel.
Oschon (Wanderer): Symbol is a walking stick, hand holds a bow
Menphina (Lover): Symbol is the moon, hand holds a skillet
Rhalgr (Destroyer): Symbol is a meteor, hand holds a staff

Next, one would expect that if they were made by similar means, that Dalamud Prime would, like Second Dalamud, have 24 spines made from 12 "swords." This doesn't seem to be the case - the first piece that falls from Dalamud Prime shows it to be its own unique spike. On top of this, there appear to be far more than 24 spikes on Dalamud prime. I think I can count about 21 on just the visible face in one freeze-frame.

If you want to be super nit-picky (like me) you can also note that Second Dalamud lacks any appendages at the poles, which is the key support that caused the Dalamud Prime to fail once lost.

What I do find kind of neat, though, is that the explosive pattern of Dalamud Prime creates circles on its surface that look like those used to summon Ifrit, and those hanging around Second Dalamud. What's up? Could they be connected? Possilby. But does SE love using sigil circles for magic all the time, anyway? Definitely.

Last, Second Dalamud is covered in Eorzean script; these are actually the alphabet repeated over and over, but we can pretend they're arcane magics, or our prayers incarnate.

Somewhere at SEHQ, someone just yelled,
"I TOLD YOU MOOSE WAS GOING TO CHECK IT.
SOMEONE GO PAY FERNEHALWES HIS WINNINGS."

Dalamud Prime shows no indication of anything like this on its surface. Maybe. I did get this one anomalous screenshot, for the sake of being thorough, that does seem to indicate some symbols (if you want it to. It also kinda looks like a My Little Pony if you want it to. Regular old broken rubble is on the menu, as well).

If it's stript, it's certainly not Eorzean, though, that's for sure. For completeness, here's an example of both Second Dalamud and the one frame of End of an Era that looks kinda like Dalamud might have some scribble on it.

What can we conclude from all this?

Well, for starters, lets' talk about the Path of the Twelve's logo. Simple answer? Who knows! The symbol was in the game at launch on September 22nd. Yoshida-san's accession was announced on December 10th, and by January 1st he knew the basic outline to the Seventh Umbral Era at least as detailed as "Drop Moon - Get Bahamut." It might be a reference, it might be a retcon. Either way, though, it fits. We can have this discussion after we see what The Path of the Twelve thinks its origins and goals are in ARR.

But are the two Dalamuds the same creation?

At this point, I don't really think so. To me, it looks like the Allaghans did this with their own technology, and that when we channeled our prayers to The Twelve they just attempted to divinely "undo" what just happened. The Dalamuds look different enough, to me, to say that the second was an emulation of the first.

Thing is, this question will definitely be answered someday... No sense putting all this work into it now.
(the Moose said, realizing how much work he just put into this now)



EDIT
HAPPY THANKSGIVING, FERNE (AND ERRYBODEH ELSE, TOO)

[HiirNoivl]

DUMPTRUCK POST 1 of 3: PARAGON GENDER

We have two path companions who are shamelessly gender biased and making assumptions. What's odd is that a bunch of them refer to the paragon as a "he"/"him" earlier in the very same quest. Almost all of them, in fact. I only listed a few of the nine.

Do we conclude with the majority and assume it is a him? Possibly Urianger?

Or do we take this ambiguity as a sign to leave it alone until they flat out tell us who it is?

Thanks for bringing this one to the table, Hiir. Something tells me it would have thrown a wrench in a discussion someday if we hadn't checked it out XD

;~; Or maybe it's a translation glitch? **Backs away slowly.** (kowai..)

EDIT: Woah! I fell blessed with a post from Ferny-poo! *blush-blush* I'm glad that it wasn't a glitch and you guys were just trying to mess with our heads again. ^^/

Meanwhile back at the ascian, I couldn't find any more shadowless people other than Slenderman Elezen and the Grim Reaper. But there are lots of references to shadows in the dialogue. So maybe they are there in the background. For example, in the Grand Company quests, you're sent by random NPCs to "get" Urianger, who later turns out not to be a baddie. Or at least to be "anti-Imperial", since his motivations aren't really known.

Since it's obvious that the Circle of Knowing and the Ascians are not friends and are against each other, perhaps they are the true source of the orders to "get" Urianger.

Urianger: I have sensed the hand that guideth thee and know of its intent. Full oft, truth lieth not in that which is spoken, but that which is left unspoken. Refuse to open thine eyes and thou shalt linger in darkness for eternity. Or mayhap the dark shadow cast upon thy soul hath rendered it unable to accept the dawn. But first thou must cast off the shadow which defiles it....


Also, The Legatus seems annoyed at their own shadows.

Van Baelsar (Futures Perfect): The cloying stench of shadow lingers still....

Van Darnus (It Kills with Fire): Oh, but what manner of foul shadow will the unredeemed souls of your countrymen cast by the light of judgement! The mere imagining of it cuts me to the quick.

And we are talking about the Umbral era after all.

[Catapult]

Woot! Ferne did me a favour!

E-herm...
/regains composure

Ok, two points on Dalamud Prime.

- Dalamud Prime definitely has more spikes. It may be safe to assume that if Second Dalamud was created in the same way, it didn't have as much oomph in it. I mean, for starters, it failed. But more importantly, Louisoix had to scramble to pull it togther. Ancient Allag would have had a gang of arcanists and/or summoners working on it.

- Erosion. Anything that has been up in the sky for over a millenia is gonna take some damage in the form of weathering on the way up and down and space debris that hasn't had a chance to burn up in the atmosphere. This is in addition to the thing getting bloddy hot and spitting off fragments as meteorites. That thing was bound to be a wreck of its original form by the time it was ready to shatter.

And on the banner, I'm simply inclined to think the thing is old and re-purposed by the Path, rather than being something they made themselves. If one of the Twelve's most significant moments in history was the sealing of Bahamut, it's going to leave behind some consequental cultural relics, even if their meaning has since been forgotten. And textiles can survive a millenia or two if properly taken care of.

I'm also inclined to the think that the whole "Dalamud is a prison for a bad guy" concept was at least on the cards for lore people to take advantage of at some point for an expansion. SE lore masters are known for having way more ideas brainstormed than they can fit into a plotline (particulalry the case for Pulse and Ivalice), although you'll still see that background lore working it's way into the game's environment to create a better working picture, Tolkien-style. Trying to retcon stuff in an FF world would be really complicated.
Chances are Yoshi-P met with the lore guys in Jan 2011 and asked "what are our plot options and can you do armageddon without rewriting your Eorzean history books?" Casting meteor on the lesser "moon" would have then emerged as such an option to consider.

[HiirNoivl]

Who are these people

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned this yet.

****************

Somewhere along the banks of the Black Tea River in Gridania...

"I see the mind purge was a success," mutters a hooded man as he slowly folds a copy of the Raven and slips it beneath his dark cloak.

"I did only what was necessary. Had we let her continue before we had completed our preparations, the consequences would have been dire," replies a similarly garbed woman huddled in the shadow of a nearby tree.

The man pauses for a moment, then slowly lifts his head to gaze upon the twin moons hovering in the night sky before whispering, "Yet time is of the essence. There are those who have already begun to piece together the clues laid out before them, and soon our secret will be a secret no longer. But until then, we must remain vigilant..."

[Catapult]

Who are these people

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned this yet.

****************

Somewhere along the banks of the Black Tea River in Gridania...

"I see the mind purge was a success," mutters a hooded man as he slowly folds a copy of the Raven and slips it beneath his dark cloak.

"I did only what was necessary. Had we let her continue before we had completed our preparations, the consequences would have been dire," replies a similarly garbed woman huddled in the shadow of a nearby tree.

The man pauses for a moment, then slowly lifts his head to gaze upon the twin moons hovering in the night sky before whispering, "Yet time is of the essence. There are those who have already begun to piece together the clues laid out before them, and soon our secret will be a secret no longer. But until then, we must remain vigilant..."

I'm... not sure. The vibe I'm getting is that we haven't met them yet.
They could of course be archons, in which case the woman is probably Ysh'tola and the man could be Papalymo. But it just doesn't quite feel right.

[HiirNoivl]

Yeah when have they ever skulked around in shadows and cloaks? I did not believe them to be of the Circle of Knowing at all. Unless they are others more like Urianger's persuasion. Yda couldn't skulk if she tried. Y'shtola maybe a bit more forceful, but she's not the type to actually fiddle with people's heads and suppress knowledge. (Though maybe she could do it if she wanted.)