CG Midlander

[Alaltus]

It's "grammaryes".... Dictionary.com spells it with one "m".

But if he weren't going to teach them how to use the key, why were the Sahagin cooperating with Travanchet at all? After all, Travanchet didn't share with the Knights of the Barracuda how to use the key. It was useless in their hands. Unless there was something in it for the Sahagin, I don't see why they would ally themselves with the Ascian.

The Leviathan summoning was already sorta scrapped when the unfortunately real-life events occurred. They WERE going to have Leviathan in the story, but Seal Rock disappeared into the mists again and didn't reappear.

It Kills with fire
"Hah! Those wooden-headed tree fondlers will have to do better than that if they hope to play the thalassocracy! All know it was our own Company of Heroes that slew Leviathan, and it's plain the Gridanians seek to supplement their feeble ranks with allies who might feasibly contend with a primal."

I'm guessing seal rock must have been opened and Leviathan summoned for him to be killed we were just not involved.

[Warlock]

Yes, but only after they were taught to do so.

Let's be honest here, the primals aren't our buddies, the beast tribes that summon primals aren't our buddies either. Sisipu said that until Seal Rock showed up, Sahagin didn't bother Limsa Lominsa at all. Once it showed up, Sahagin burned down a village and killed everyone in it.

According to the sylphs, those to cross the border between corporal and aetherial are turned evil. They said their minds are clouded, the hearts are hardened and their souls darkened.

The folks wandering around teaching beasts tribes to summon can't be the "good guys". Whether they are Ascians or not... but the Ascians are the only bad guys aligned with beast tribes and on a mission to free a primal.

So, that's why I'm thinking Paragon and Ascian are related or even the same.

EDIT: And going further out on a limb, when Baelsar complained about the stench of shadow at Silvertear falls in the VA'ed cutscene of Forever Taken, maybe he was remembering how the primals were released during the battle there and it ruined their day which is another idea that could link Ascians and primal summoning together.

And considering that Yoshi revealed that the Empire cares more about killing beast tribes than conquering our lands, I don't think this storyline is going to completely disappear so it's worth looking at.

*rolls in all the lore* Wheee-heehee! \o.O/

You look Hawt rolling on Lore ^_~. I think the Paragon is Urianger as he knew already about us and he was concerned in our safety. I have been pondering over why the rest of the Circle of Knowing let Urianger appear to be an enemy and let him be hunted for a while until later on is revealed he is part of the crew.

[Yenrii]

Yoshi-P already said legacy players will start ARR where the heroes in the CG do ..so first time you log in-to ARR you will pop at the same spot in the new Mor Dhona? where the Hyur does the 10 face expressions ...unlike new people will start at a city

I'm wondering how this all will work, since we're apparently not going to have the ability to teleport anywhere and we will not be starting out with any maps. Plopping us in a Mor Dhona we've never seen before and making us walk to a city would be a little odd. I appreciate the realism, but I feel like many players will complain.

[Soukyuu]

I'm wondering how this all will work, since we're apparently not going to have the ability to teleport anywhere and we will not be starting out with any maps. Plopping us in a Mor Dhona we've never seen before and making us walk to a city would be a little odd. I appreciate the realism, but I feel like many players will complain.

I dont think we will be dropped in Mor Dhona, I personally think it will be somewhere near Gridania. Also, people will complain no matter what. I'm just happy the realism is kept, or rather, we are recognized as the players who lived through Bahamut's mayhem

[Warlock]

I dont think we will be dropped in Mor Dhona, I personally think it will be somewhere near Gridania. Also, people will complain no matter what. I'm just happy the realism is kept, or rather, we are recognized as the players who lived through Bahamut's mayhem

Well.. it might not be Mor Dhona but wherever the heroes end up at that is where we will log on and that's a fact

[NoloeTazier]

I'm wondering how this all will work, since we're apparently not going to have the ability to teleport anywhere and we will not be starting out with any maps. Plopping us in a Mor Dhona we've never seen before and making us walk to a city would be a little odd. I appreciate the realism, but I feel like many players will complain.

Well the good thing is, we weren't fighting in Mor Dhona, we were at the Cartaneau Flats which is south of Mor Dhona and west of Bluefog. Which is kinda bad because the entire northern area of Bluefog seems to be Imperial Control on the new maps. Maybe we get to ride on one of the trains~

[HiirNoivl]

Well we're just going to have to wait until ARR to find out the truth.

I know that Leviathan was summoned. We should have been involved and we SHOULD have seen how the Ascian was involved in Leviathan's release but.... ah well... *sigh*

I seriously doubt Urianger is a Paragon. I think it's already been established that he's an Archon, unless you think Archons are Paragons. But I don't see Louisoux as a Paragon since he's sending us to kill off summoned primals. I'm not convinced that the Paragon's asking that Ifrit spare us as an act of benevolence. As happy as I am that Hiir Noivl was not fried to a crisp right there, the fact that Ifrit was THERE was essentially the Paragon's FAULT.

So... I'm still thinking Paragons are Ascians.....

I have been pondering over why the rest of the Circle of Knowing let Urianger appear to be an enemy and let him be hunted for a while until later on is revealed he is part of the crew.

I think I read somewhere that he was used as a distraction for the Empire. While Urianger was doin' the hula at all the Aetheryte camps and freakin' everyone out, we managed to pull the Grand Companies together. OR something like that.

[Anonymoose]

Yeah, the paragon thing can go either way. Ascians is a good place to be suspicious since we learn about them at roughly the same time. The main thing I'm suspicious about is that the Archons and Paragons are spoken of in EXACTLY the same manner, down to the wording used in the game script.

Archons come in dark times to lead their people to the light of The Twelve
Paragons come in dark times to lead their people to the light of the Primals

I also started toying around with the idea that the, if the Paragons and Archons are the same, that perhaps they figured they could use the primals like batteries - store up all the aether in things that the Empire would have a hard time taking down, so it would be less likely to be fed to their own purposes... but... that's a bit of a stretch.

For those of you digging through the four city missions before the paths converge, is anyone getting any feeling about how far back these echoes are going?

The timeline is super confusing
Y'shtola's presence in town was stated to be about fortnight (2 weeks)
Baderon tells Y'shtola that, at this time, the Sahagin have been attacking frequently for 5 years (as of when the Serpent was sighted)
Sisipu goes from a young child to whatever she is now
Sthalmann falls from grace and becomes Rostnsthal
Sthalmann's "bill" has become Rostnsthal's "debts"
Baderon was a "wee sprat" the last time the serpent was heard of
The Admiral of Limsa Lominsa is a male defending himself in The Trident

[Warlock]

Yeah, the paragon thing can go either way. Ascians is a good place to be suspicious since we learn about them at roughly the same time. The main thing I'm suspicious about is that the Archons and Paragons are spoken of in EXACTLY the same manner, down to the wording used in the game script.

Archons come in dark times to lead their people to the light of The Twelve
Paragons come in dark times to lead their people to the light of the Primals

I also started toying around with the idea that the, if the Paragons and Archons are the same, that perhaps they figured they could use the primals like batteries - store up all the aether in things that the Empire would have a hard time taking down, so it would be less likely to be fed to their own purposes... but... that's a bit of a stretch.

For those of you digging through the four city missions before the paths converge, is anyone getting any feeling about how far back these echoes are going?

For Limsa, I'm getting about 5 years. Anybody else arriving at that?

In Gridania side i didn't notice an Echo going that far ..what i DID notice is that from the start till you do a full pass out Echo and right after you are told you have this gift at the White Sands you experience the Echo repeatedly , a lot more often than after you are told you have such gift. In all CSs there is a woosh sound that goes together with a change of music and right after it the person you are talking with says something like "huh?, wut were was i? ah! yes as i was saying" you are jumping in and out of Echo constantly the line is lost when you are in and when you are out...so what is this supposed to mean?

[HiirNoivl]

Yeah, the paragon thing can go either way. Ascians is a good place to be suspicious since we learn about them at roughly the same time. The main thing I'm suspicious about is that the Archons and Paragons are spoken of in EXACTLY the same manner, down to the wording used in the game script.

You know, Eorzea is like a coin, from each side you get a different take on what everything is. I think the Ascian and Paragon thing is similar. Please keep in mind that when we talk about Paragon, it's always from the beastmen side of the coin. The first person's to mention the Paragons are the sylphs, which your Path companion overhears and gets the harebrained idea of trying to ask them for help.

Of course the beastmen admire the Paragons and think they're awesome because they brought them the ability to summon primals and fight the Empire. Heck, judging from Ferny-poos post, they the GODS of the gods! (see also: definition of Paragon, it's pretty high praise.) But is it really their nature to make war? Or is that their nature now that they've had their minds addled by summoning primals (chicken => egg) that they've decided to kill of the Empire. Are they merely pawns in a bigger war between the Ascians and the Empire? And if this is the truth, who is really behind the Empire I wonder.

Now in Toll of the Warden, we notice that the whole Primal summoning has started in earnest and now the beast tribes won't sell their crystals any more. Apparently this trend had only just recently started judging from Minfilia's dialogue. And you go there and the first thing the Amalj'aa and the Ixal try to do is see who has the strongest primal and --- guess who else pops up? An Ascian.

*Hiir adjusts her monocle*

It's elementary my dear Moose. The perpetrator always returns to the scene of the crime. I don't see Urianger creeping around the Ixal or the Amalj'aa. But wherever the beastmen are getting mixed up with primal fever, the Shadowless show up.