CG Midlander

[Anonymoose]

If any primal would have been 'summoned' ... it would be Ramuh or whatever the Sylphs primal is going to be.

This is another possibility; I mentioned it in the list of suspects way way way back, but eventually I discarded the idea because when you take into account that (A) the sylphs are still peaceful, friendly creatures that preach never summoning primals due to the way they darken hearts and make tribes violent, and (B) Odin's home is the Shroud. It just seems to carry slightly more statistical weight. You never know, though. Maybe they just did it that one time?

Meaning, finding the horn of Heimdall, we might be able to summon Odin.

Wow! Regardless of whether or not it ties into the plot, that's a great find - and one that would tie a few loose ends together, were it correct. Awesome contribution (^u^)b

The biggest strength of your case is the timing. We know the Garlean invasion of Mor Dhona took on Midgardsormr 10 years ago, 5 years after the conquering of Ala Mhigo. And we know that Midgardsormr isn't what convinced them to turn back - a legitimate primal was.

The echoes of the main storyline introductions for each city seem to be about ten years past, shortly after the Battle of Silvertear Skies. This is when Y'shtola loses the horn.

If you're correct, then Midgardsormr's death caused Swallowtail Roam (Seal Rock) to rise, and with it the Sea Serpent and the Treasure (Horn), which would have been stolen from Y'shtola / Sthalmann only weeks later during the initial post-Silvertear investigation of Eorzea by the Circle of knowing.

This would have occurred BEFORE the Garleans encountered the primal and AFTER the horn was stolen.

You've got a serious shot at being onto something, there, sir.

These primals have already been appointed to be primals of existing Beastmen races, and soon after the Sylphs that were also present, feel very intrigued by the fact, that mankind would also be able to summon a Primal of their own. Which in this theory, would be Odin.

This is something we've toyed with on and off. To sum it up for you so you don't have to dig through all the pages, primals appear to be like the Titans of ancient Greece; "old gods" (primordial deities, daemons, etc.) that come from, to quote the sylphs, "amongst the aether" and beyond the void. Seemingly, they take root in our physical reality and cross the veil by attaching themselves to an isolated society and building a cult with themselves at the center, exchanging gifts of power and protection in exchange for worship and aether (which is how they maintain physical form in our world).

This has a dual effect - the society that has been turned into a cult grows violent, arrogant, and powerful, whereas the deity becomes obsessive and paranoid about controlling as much aether as possible while preventing any competition. Garuda and the Ixal are one of the more extreme examples of out-of-control primalism.

I'm sure Ifrit can smell his own - so whatever is taking an interest in us might very well be of the old ways; a primal, a mothercrystal, something. So whom? Siren made a lot of sense of a little while... it could be Odin, as well. Each tribe seems to have an element except for the Dragons and the Woken Races (Hyur, Miqo'te, etc.) so this would be a great Astral v. Umbral relationship.

What I'm interested in is what the Garleans are up to. They VERY CLEARLY want aether despite claiming to desire the annihilation of the primals. My theory is that they crave the destruction of all primals but their own; a primordial essence fused with Garlean magitek built in the method of the Allagan - Alexander.

But where does that leave Siren, of whom we have concept art?! OH MAN, GOOD TIMES ARE COMING.

[Catapult]

The biggest strength of your case is the timing. We know the Garlean invasion of Mor Dhona took on Midgardsormr 10 years ago, 5 years after the conquering of Ala Mhigo. And we know that Midgardsormr isn't what convinced them to turn back - a legitimate primal was.

The echoes of the main storyline introductions for each city seem to be about ten years past, shortly after the Battle of Silvertear Skies. This is when Y'shtola loses the horn.

If you're correct, then Midgardsormr's death caused Swallowtail Roam (Seal Rock) to rise, and with it the Sea Serpent and the Treasure (Horn), which would have been stolen from Y'shtola / Sthalmann only weeks later during the initial post-Silvertear investigation of Eorzea by the Circle of knowing.

This would have occurred BEFORE the Garleans encountered the primal and AFTER the horn was stolen.

You've got a serious shot at being onto something, there, sir.

Woah woah woah! Continuity check.

Speak of the Garlean advance discusses how shortly after the victory at Ala Mhigo, the appearance of a primal halted their advance. "Shortly after" is not five years, especially when people talk about how since this incident, the Garleans have barely been seen with the exception of the battle of Silvertear Skies ten years ago.

A primal appeared near Ala Mhigo fifteen years ago, not ten, and thus well before the events we have been echoing.

[Anonymoose]

Woah woah woah! Continuity check.

You have a point about that being another interpretation. That area is SUPER foggy, so if I sounded like I was trying to be conclusive, I apologize. Lemme dig around here, for a sec. My foundation on that is wrong in that regard, you're right.

In subjugating Ala Mhigo, van Baelsar employed subterfuge to stoke the fires of civil unrest, a masterstroke which led to the nation's capture without the need for a protracted siege. However, the unanticipated appearance of a primal shortly thereafter prompted the Empire to halt the legion's advance. The legatus has since remained in Ala Mhigo, where he rules as an imperial viceroy.

We cannot conclusively say what period of time "shortly after" is by any means. The phrasing lends itself much better to "shortly after" being 1557-1560ish, BEFORE the fall of Midgardosrmr. I simply meant to speculate that, were his connections right, it wouldn't shatter the lore and would tie up loose ends. I should have gone with "could mean" and not "would mean." I don't think that means they ran into the primal in Ala Mhigan lands, though.

To quote some history:

The date is 1468 of the Sixth Astral Era. The forces of Ala Mhigo have crossed the Velodyna River, whose waters form the border with neighboring Gridania, and now claim dominion over the East Shroud.

If one is to continue an advance (as opposed to halt it) on Eorzea from a conquered Ala Mhigo, they would likely take the same path that Ala Mhigans did when attempting to invade the very same territory. This places them right in the East Shroud, which is exactly where the Empire resumed their march, as well. Interestingly, this is exactly where the Sylph village lies. This was the source of my first assumption that the primal encountered must have been Ramuh, however I've seen no reason to distrust the Sylphs when they say they refuse to summon him. For starters, they're still friendly, they're still small and weak, and most importantly, outright support the idea of crystal socialism (equal distribution to every tribe and city).

Does this make it a likelier candidate than Odin? Perhaps. It depends entirely on where he's hanging out! In the trailer we see him with a perfectly circle roof opening above. Nature doesn't work in perfect shapes. So, where is this? We have Gelmorra Ruins to the North:

This image Yoshida-san showed us is clearly the North Shroud (bodies of water line up perfectly from old maps to new), and we do have a dungeon there, now! We know the Gelmorrans work with circles as evidenced by that tonberry pit

That Claudio...

We also know that there are some ruins of similar fashion out by Nine Ivies, near Spirithold, (WHICH I'M TOTALLY NOT BREAKING NDA BY TALKING ABOUT, IT'S MENTIONED IN A LEVEQUEST). Those line up pretty well, too!

Fact of the matter is that this is future content, and we should be focusing on the old.

Long story short, I do think you're right to call me out on that continuity shake-up; I find it statistically most likely that The Empire took Ala Mhigo, then moved south into the East Shroud and be scared off by WHOMEVER, which made them pull back and make a hail-mary play for Silvertear. In this scenario, the loss of the horn would occur AFTER they would have run into the Primal, causing a ripple in that connection making sense.

I just liked the idea of the horn connection and jumped into ways it might fit, lol. It certainly doesn't seem very likely that they moved on Silvertear before encountering the primal; however, everything we've seen so far says that the primals didn't start being summoned to our reality until after Midgardsormr fell. Perhaps Odin has the juice to pull that early appearance off. He's a very old and powerful primal. Ramuh probably couldn't, but Odin, maybe! I'll give you that one.

A big thing here for me is the connection between The Twelve (Olympians) and the Primals (Titans). Each realm, continent, whatever, seems to have an independent aetheric system. Midgardsormr, who it is rumored was created by The Twelve (as was the Sea Serpent, who appeared after his death), seemed to seal their access to power away. That lines up well with the Greek legends, not that SE is bound to it or anything; Odin sure wasn't there. So, it wouldn't break the lore. Doesn't make it likelier, so I'm still with you on calling me out on that one. But, it wouldn't break the lore.

Keep in mind, a connection between the horn and Odin, and even the ascians, could exist independent of the timing. We're just thinking of ways to put ALL of the puzzle pieces.

I wonder if this has any connection to the twin adders that appear on the heraldry of Gridania and its worship of Nophica, goddess of the Land.

... <dives into old notes>

I always figured that the two adders were the Gods' Quiver and the Wood Wailers; it implies that those entities have been around for thousands of years, but hey, the alliance as a whole has, so who's to say the entities within the cities haven't?

Still... snakes... interesting.