CG Midlander

[Catapult]

3. You guys hit the proverbial nail on its proverbial head in your speculation regarding what happens with the Midlander. As was stated above, all three have the power of the Echo, allowing them to experience the past, interact with it, but ultimately not change the outcome of anything important (the wind created by a battleaxe swing will not start a hurricane in Garlemald). While sifting through guildleves, our well-groomed Midlander is flung back into another person’s memory about a simple job to kill a morbol. The job ultimately takes an unexpected twist that ends in the party witnessing one of the most spectacular battles of the Sixth Astral Era.

Ok, got a question for you Ferne, because I'm not believing the part I've bolded up there holds completely true. I'm going to be quoting the Gridanian plotlines for Sundered Skies through to Beckon of the Elementals. (For those who want to follow along, I've dropped the entire text log here, including highlighting a few localisation mistakes in red - I haven't brought them up here since I suspect they are now moot pending ARR.)

In all of this, I'm presuming there aren't any localisation or plot errors, although Ferne is welcome to correct me if there are. After all, this is why the LOC forum exists. (My favourite error was when the Vans once referred to eikons and Primals. )

In Sundered Skies, when you arrive in Gridania, this is said to us outside of the echo by Farrimond:

Farrimond: Did you see the darkened skies? The streaking lights and the falling comets? I know not what to make of it all...

This tells us that our arrival in Gridania comes shortly after the sky-darkening starshower that is witnessed inside an echo at the very end of Beckon of the Elementals, recently enough for people like Farrimond to still be talking about it. So what this means is that the cleansing ritual to try and rescue Krimm, while also supposedly cleansing Yda and Papalymo, has already taken place.

Next up, we have these quotes outside of the echo. These are the ones that refer to Fye.

Hermit of the Wood: A message for Fye? Well, I'll be damned.

Sansa: Taveth saw a moogle in the forest. It asked him to give a message to Fye.
Ryd: Really!?
Sansa: I see her in the forest sometimes, too. And I hear the grownups talking about her. They say Fye is sad because the elementals are real.
Fufucha: Shush now, children. Brother E-Sumi has come to visit, so be on your best behavior.
E-Sumi-Yan: I believe you were just talking about Fye, were you not?
Powle: That's right. Taveth talked to her in the wood.
Fufucha: Fye!? She spoke to you!?
E-Sumi-Yan: The Twelveswood is ill at ease now. The elementals are frightened. There are many outsiders, and wildlings besides. Yet I fear these are merely pieces to a far greater puzzle.
E-Sumi-Yan: Pray tell me, Taveth, did Fye ask anything of you?
E-Sumi-Yan: I see. So she wishes to ask the moogles if a wildling can be returned from the forest's grasp...

Fye is understood to be wandering the forest, searching for Dunstan, wanting for him to be reclaimed from being a wildling. It seems most of the people in Gridania haven't even seen her recently. They think I've been talking to her in the forest, rather than in echos around town.

Pudgy Moogle: But there's more. The elementals have something to ask of you, as well.
Pudgy Moogle: Tell the Hyur girl, the one named Fye, to stop wandering the wood, kupo.

Again, same situation. Although it's also plausible the elementals know you have the echo.

Fufucha: You are one of the few who have befriended Fye, after all. And that is no small task.
Fufucha: What? What did you just say!?
Fufucha: The elementals asked you to talk to Fye? They asked you!?

The entire affair is a big deal.

Lewin: I hear it told the elementals have asked you to deliver a message─a message to Fye. It seems they've entrusted you with the task of saving her.

So it seem Fye's welfare is at stake as she wanders the wood.

O-App-Pesi: To this day, his woodsin continues to grow and fester, and with it the elementals' desire to bring about his end. Truly, I have rarely seen them so wroth─and yet he will not relent.
Lewin: Dunstan, he is named, and it is his sister Fye he seeks. No doubt he means only to help her.
O-App-Pesi: My men tell me that you have already made the acquaintance of Fye. This is why I have summoned you.
O-App-Pesi: We need your strength, Taveth. For Fye's sake, and for Dunstan's. If you should see anything queer in the Twelveswood, make it known at once.

I'm assuming when they say Dunstan brought down the hedge, they mean when Yda&Papalymo arrived, but that's not the point. The point is that to this day, Dunstan and Fye are still searching for each other. And Dunstan is still rogue.

Lewin: How have we not found the bastard? We've combed every bloody ilm of the Twelveswood, yet the unrest of the elementals continues.
O-App-Pesi: The fault lies with me, I fear. It was I who was unable to deter Dunstan from entering the forest. Still, I beg of you, Lewin, leave Fye to me.
Lewin: Hm, you? Ah, yes, I suppose Miounne did mention you might come stumbling along. So, you have a mind to take part in a ranging, do you?
Lewin: Well, I'm in no position to refuse help, however meager. Dunstan will stop short of nothing to get what he wants. He must be found!

ie: Dunstan was at the grand rite, but then ran away again.

O-App-Pesi: And now it is I who asks a favor of you. Even if found, Dunstan and Fye will not be out of harm's way. Nor will we. The wrath of the elementals will continue. It is best that they leave Gridania and the Twelveswood altogether. Please, Taveth, convince them of this.

O-App describes the situation as if the purification rite on them was a complete and utter failure and Dunstan is still seeping in woodsin .

A'naidjaa: I'm sorry, you're searching for whom? Fye?
A'naidjaa: Please, do not speak that name to me. Such a tragedy, what that lass has been put through. I do not wish to be reminded.

Same thing. Utter tragedy.

Miounne: Taveth, there is word of a commotion over at Stillglade Fane. Haven't been to see for myself, but I've heard talk of wildlings.

ie: Dunstan has just arrived in town. While he may be cooperating with the Conjurers, it is clear the populous do not recognise him as cleansed - Fye certainly doesn't since she is reportedly searching the wood for him.

Ok, now things start getting complicated. This one is inside the echo, but not observable in a cutscene, just after Dunstan has been brought in by Yda and Papalymo:

Fye: Let me in! I have to see him! I have to see Khrimm!
Fye: You'll help me, won't you, Taveth? Find Brother E-Sumi, or Brother O-App. Tell them I'm here!
Fye: I have to see Khrimm. I have to talk to him. To tell him I...I'm sorry.
Silky-haired Conjurer: Calm down, child! You can't see him now. It's too dangerous.
Disconcerted Conjurer: You cannot pass, Fye. Trust us, it is for your own good.

It is clear to me that the Conjurers have, up until the present day, thought it best to keep Fye away from her brother, Dunstan, very much oblivious of what she could do for him.

Back to present day:

O-App-Pesi: We are thinking to have Dunstan here take part in the purification rites―secretly, of course.
O-App-Pesi: By all rights, he should not even be in Gridania. Should the townsfolk discover he is planning to attend the ceremony, it would cause an outcry. His mere presence would seem to them to invite disaster.
O-App-Pesi: But if he is present, then there is a chance of he and Fye meeting. And that, Taveth, depends entirely upon you.
O-App-Pesi: The rites are about to commence.
O-App-Pesi: Taveth, should you see Fye again, please tell her. Tell her that her brother is waiting for her.

Policy change. And more importantly, Fye has not yet met Dunstan.

Now this is where I believe we start changing history's significant events.

Echo time - These quotes are from the Grand Rite sequence.

Fye: What's that? Dunstan? My brother? He's here!?

She genuinely did not know. Without your intervention, they would not meet.
And then there is this, after you're back from the echo-in-an-echo where you witness Krimm having the chat with his parents and setting light to the Oath Tree, all the while Papalymo wonders "How in the bloody hells did we get here!?".

Fye: Dunstan! Dunstan!
E-Sumi-Yan: He is safe, child, thanks to you. That mask you made had a great deal of love in it.
E-Sumi-Yan: And miracles do occur, it would seem.
Khrimm: What...? What happened?
Fye: Khrimm!
Yda: Please tell me you just saw all that, too.
Yda: It wasn't a dream, because I don't dream. Or at least I never remember them if I do.
Yda: Maybe it was a vision. Like the kind the cultists say you see if you eat moogle flesh during a full moon.
Yda: Pinch me, Papalymo. I do believe I may be dead again.
Papalymo: No, this is no great beyond, Yda. It was the past we saw. Twelve be good, it was the past! By some strange power...or someone's.

Which means that, before you have even arrived in Gridania, the following has now happened:
- Fye has met Dunstan
- Krimm's AND Dunstan's woodsin has been cleansed
- You have demonstrated the echo to Papalymo and Yda who previously weren't aware of it.

It goes on to make you wonder why Fye and Dunstan would still be out searching for each other for the whole first four quests of the Main Scenario.

But you, Ferne, have told us that the echo doesn't allow us to change the outcome of anything important.

[kimoi]

(Gridania story breakdown)

Thanks for that. I was just trying this yesterday looking at the cutscenes. To add to what you said about the hints of tragedy, there was a quote by O-App-Essi that was "In the end they forgave us the fire, but none shall forget the loss of life that was suffered." In combination with them all talking about how Fye had such a tragic life, I assumed it meant Khrimm or Dunstan died. But if it were the former, he couldn't turn into the Hermit. If it were the latter, he couldn't have opened the hedge.

- You have demonstrated the echo to Papalymo and Yda who previously weren't aware of it.

I don't think they were unaware of it, they in fact call it by name. As Papalymo says, "Do you need even ask? We should have stopped it and we didn't. It has begun. The winds of change have already swept over Eorzea. We are only just now realizing it. The Echo has sounded... And nothing can stop it now." So they're just surprised because they didn't expect to experience someone using it. Now, why they were trying to stop something, that is what I don't understand.

[Warlock]

Thanks for that. I was just trying this yesterday looking at the cutscenes. To add to what you said about the hints of tragedy, there was a quote by O-App-Essi that was "In the end they forgave us the fire, but none shall forget the loss of life that was suffered." In combination with them all talking about how Fye had such a tragic life, I assumed it meant Khrimm or Dunstan died. But if it were the former, he couldn't turn into the Hermit. If it were the latter, he couldn't have opened the hedge.


I don't think they were unaware of it, they in fact call it by name. As Papalymo says, "Do you need even ask? We should have stopped it and we didn't. It has begun. The winds of change have already swept over Eorzea. We are only just now realizing it. The Echo has sounded... And nothing can stop it now." So they're just surprised because they didn't expect to experience someone using it. Now, why they were trying to stop something, that is what I don't understand.

Papalymo and Yda were aware of it...well mostly Papalymo as Yda is a silly girl but good with her fists. He recognizes it but maybe he doesn't have the Echo..at first i thought all Archons had it but now i'm inclining more towards to that only Y'shtola has it in the gang and she moves them all around..

What Papalymo says that needed to be stopped was the breaking of the seal..they all had different approaches to it ..Tanchred was more like trying to figure out what catastrophe was going to fall on Ul'dah specifically when in fact the tragedy was going to affect the entire world which leads me to think that the information Warburton was supposed to deliver was that the Empira was going to launch a massive attack to Silvertear Lake and take over all the crystal resources ...the breaking of the seal was an accident...and the star shower maybe marks the death of Midgarsormr

[Catapult]

Papalymo and Yda were aware of it...well mostly Papalymo as Yda is a silly girl but good with her fists. He recognizes it but maybe he doesn't have the Echo..at first i thought all Archons had it but now i'm inclining more towards to that only Y'shtola has it in the gang and she moves them all around..

What Papalymo says that needed to be stopped was the breaking of the seal..they all had different approaches to it ..Tanchred was more like trying to figure out what catastrophe was going to fall on Ul'dah specifically when in fact the tragedy was going to affect the entire world which leads me to think that the information Warburton was supposed to deliver was that the Empira was going to launch a massive attack to Silvertear Lake and take over all the crystal resources ...the breaking of the seal was an accident...and the star shower maybe marks the death of Midgarsormr

To pour a little bit of cold water, Futures Perfect has the archon you meet in these openings quests tell us that they will continue to search for the one that gave them this power. They certainly all have it, and broadly know what it's significance is, but I'm simply arguing they were not aware they had till you shoved it in their faces, much how like Minfilia does to you later. Understanding mooglespeak is not a dead giveaway.

It would indeed fit if Warbuton's information pertained to the battle Silvertear Skies.

I just don't want to assume the starshower we see happens in concurrence with Midgardsomr's death. The clouds open in a different location for each instance: just East of Ul'dah, North of Gridania and (iirc) South of Limsa.
The pieces would fit better if the echo sounded when the seal was broken, but quest#4's starshower happens after the fact.

[Warlock]

To pour a little bit of cold water, Futures Perfect has the archon you meet in these openings quests tell us that they will continue to search for the one that gave them this power. They certainly all have it, and broadly know what it's significance is, but I'm simply arguing they were not aware they had till you shoved it in their faces, much how like Minfilia does to you later. Understanding mooglespeak is not a dead giveaway.

It would indeed fit if Warbuton's information pertained to the battle Silvertear Skies.

I just don't want to assume the starshower we see happens in concurrence with Midgardsomr's death. The clouds open in a different location for each instance: just East of Ul'dah, North of Gridania and (iirc) South of Limsa.
The pieces would fit better if the echo sounded when the seal was broken, but quest#4's starshower happens after the fact.

I think that was a poor attempt to reproduce this

I don't believe is a star shower coming from a black hole is more like a rain of fire from all the ships been downed by dragon minions it might not come directly from Midgarsormr's death but it marks the event as the battle wasn't seen from all places but the rain of fire did ...

About Ascians i have looked everywhere and Travanchet is the only blatant case of one of them in disguise and he speaks in such superiority manner even looks at Y'shtola like nothing it's not your average dumb undead .

Now for Noloe here is comparison of the horns
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...Osi11JY#t=252s @ 4:12 exactly in Ul'dah
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_tySA1xRBk @ 6:26 exactly Travanchet steals horn from shtalmann