CG Midlander

[Skies]

I can state that Damielliot does not appears in the Alchemist quests, as I have done them all.
The ALC quests revolve around a sick boy who has a mysterious disease where he will suddenly fall asleep and not awake for large stretches of time.
Time and time again the ALC guild heals him with more and more complex solutions (he's the son of one of the leaders) until at the point the character gets involved, nothing at all is working.

In the end, what actually saves him is the Echo, actually. You use the Echo to travel to a turning point in his past (he had been kindnapped, but a dragon soaring over bowled him and his kidnappers off one of those gigantic pitfalls in Coerthas, he was near-dead, his kidnappers had died) and you'd apply the medicine inside the Echo on him.
What was interesting is also that originally, who healed him was a dragon. But now you jump into the echo and heal him, and when you return, he's awakened and thanks you for saving him. Somehow he knows you saved him right now, even if someone else was who saved him back then...
Crap I DON'T have the text of that adventure saved, argh.

[Anonymoose]

Damielliot does not appear in the Alchemist quests <...> The ALC quests revolve around a sick boy

That sick boy the ALC quest revolves around is named Damielliot. Yes, this is the same Damielliot as is seen collapsing in Calamity Cometh. I believe that truly understanding his role in that quest, as well as the ALC storyline, is immensely helped by looking at the big picture, combining those appearances.

(I've yet to do this; it's on my to-do-when-I-get-there lists)

Crap I DON'T have the text of that adventure saved, argh.

Heeeere you go!

Was it you who worked this miracle, Forename? I have just heard it from the children─that Damielliot came to whilst you were at his bedside. And that he spoke words of thanks to you─for saving him. There is no reason to suspect that our treatments suddenly started working. I wonder if it was not something within you that roused him from his sleep. Any alchemist who has practiced the healing arts for long enough has seen things like this. Things which can only be described as miracles. You are no less than a hero to the children now, Forename─and to all of us. Miracle or not, I am grateful that you were here. Please, take this─a scarcely adequate token of our immense appreciation.

This is seen as the holy grail of "The Echo can't change the past!" being irrefutably wrong. The thing that gets me is ... Squenix doesn't give one-example hints. In my humble opinion, either this one is being interpreted improperly, or there are plenty of other examples we're just not attributing to our own influence.

My Theory
I'm wondering if what's really going on is that Damielliot has the Echo and doesn't know it or how to control it. You'll recall that before the player masters the echo, they, too, have a tendency to mysteriously pass out a lot. That might be what his sickness really is, and why he responds to the player's presence. Would that not make the dialogue much more in line with what happened? We might not have changed history at all.

Again, I haven't critically analyzed these scenes yet; I could be way off. I have faith that Catapult will nail that idea to the wall if it's wrong, though - so you're in luck!

[Catapult]

Thanks for the overview of Damielliot. As I mentioned before, I never got to play those quests, but what you have told me still fits in with my theory that we are breaking the normal rules of the echo, which is what makes the player so special (and makes for a more awesome story). Even from the very start, we have been messing with causality, such as how we obtain our baloon fish/treant vine/velodyna cosmos. Curing a sick boy in the past doesn't feel like a stretch to the player, does it? Although it might to others. Some Walkers can't understand the words of the beast tribes, others can do this but not walk the warrens of the past.

Llysander, I think you might be following a red herring. Voidsent still cast shadows. Even Atomos cast a shadow. Classifying ascians biologically may not even be possible and I currently have no reason to believe there could be as "astral version" of them, unless we perhaps consider the Twelve themselves.

[Mieck]

(Potentially) Legendary stuff

A while back, when we (as Lore-mad thread occupants) were running with the as-was-then unconfirmed Ascilia/Minfilia and Khrimm/Hermit connection, I asked what the Limsa equivalent was, and I didn't like the Sthalmann suggestion as candidate. It wasn't neat enough, and quite often, SE do "neat" (once all is visible). And yes, I admit there are a lot of assumptions going on here. It was probably down to Sthalmann's hidden identity not being very hidden, and also playing a part in the MRD quests, whereas the others were entirely (as far as I can see) restricted to the main story line.

Great work, Moose

[NoloeTazier]

[FONT=Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman]Snip~~~
Most importantly, what is that friggin' 'starshower'??!! And when does it actually take place? Is it heralding a war between the Astral Heavens and the Umbral depths? If so, where are the astral versions of the ascians? They need to jump on getting those horns too, otherwise we is S.O.L.!

Sorry can't really answer the other questions, but wanted to try and hit on the Starshowers from one of my earlier posts. I felt that the First Starshower we saw, was the explosion from the Battle of Silvertear Skies. We saw the release of the Primals and this somehow coincided with our awakening of the Echo. But it's kind of confusing because all that took place within an Echo itself, because it happened 10 years prior to our arrival to whichever City-State we chose(opening scenes I mean). But maybe that's just what happens when the Echo awakens within people. They see the 'beginning' the Starshower. As for the Second Starshower, I feel that that was a vision of what comes down the road, Minfilia tells us about people with the Echo being able to see what happens down the road and they don't want to speak of it. Regardless of which direction that Second Starshower took us (Yoshi-P or Tanaka) there was going to be some kind of huge exploding ball. With Yoshi-P it became Dalamud. When the Second Starshower happens, we blackout/passout afterwards that could just be the side-effect of seeing down the rabbit-hole so to speak.

So to sum it up:
First Starshower: the release of the Primals.
Second Starshower: Dalamud.

I may be completely wrong, but hopefully I helped in some way.

[radhaz]

I seem to remember that we have access to "warrens of the past" somewhere in the dialogue.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren

[Anonymoose]

Good news!

I was finally able to come up with a text string that led me to the complete Prelive Report that disappeared from the official XIV sources; the one that substantiates the links to Greece and concretely confirms a few things one might regard as possibly ambiguous.

Here's an abridged version I just made for my own use.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

The name of the planet is Hydaelyn; though, most would not use this word itself, for to understand the concept of a planet, one must first know of other worlds, and most on Hydaelyn do not.

The game takes place in the realm of Eorzea, one of three continents* that make up one larger super-continent (land mass); specifically, Eorzea consists of the main continent of Aldenard and its surrounding islands (the largest of which being Vylbrand, home to the city-state of Limsa Lominsa). Aldenard is connected to the other two continents via a land bridge in the north-east which will eventually lead to Garlean Imperial territory.

Eorzea contains several independently governed city-states like those found in ancient Greece. Like the Greek cities they are based on, those of Eorzea have a long history of war and alliances. The few that have lasted longest are the thalassocracy of Limsa Lominsa, the commercial sultanate of Ul’dah, and the forest city-state of Gridania, which some users have commented reminds them of an ancient Japanese polis.

However, the powerful and aggressive Garlean Empire has begun their slow advance on the city-states, making the current situation in Eorzea similar to the months before the Persian Empire marched on Greece.

Limsa Lominsa
Limsa Lominsa is a sprawling port city ruled by pirates and brigands. After the appearance of the legendary island “Swallowtail Roam,” a battle begins brewing over a treasure found there, and the player gets caught up in the action. Into whose hands will the treasure fall?

Gridania
The player angers the forest and travels to Gridania to remove his woodsin. There the player gets caught up in the story of a boy named Khrimm who insists elementals─beings thought to rule the wood─and sets out to find the truth. Will his findings overturn the beliefs of all Gridanians?

Ul’dah
The player is caught up in a terrible accident during a city-wide parade. One of the people who perish in this accident was carrying a terrible warning to Ul’dah. To learn of this warning, there are those who would seek forbidden magicks to allow them to speak with the dead...

Ishgard
The Knights of Ishgard are fighting a holy war with an ancient race of dragons, and are currently refusing contact with those they call ‘unbelievers.’ These defenders of the mountain realm appear in several different quest line

* Though the word continent is frequently used to describe Eorzea, this may be a bit of a misnomer. "Continent" generally only refers to a continuous land mass. In this case, the true continent would be Aldenard. Some have also pointed out that a more literal translation of the Japanese text would have referred to Eorzea as a "cultural sphere." It may be best to refer to Aldenard as the continent, to Vylbrand as an island off the coast of this continent, and to Eorzea as a "Realm" made up of Aldenard and its surrounding islands, including that of Vylbrand, which all (generally) share a common language, religion, world-view, and tradition of sovereign city-states, that will ally in mutual interest.

[Shurrikhan]

Sorry can't really answer the other questions, but wanted to try and hit on the Starshowers from one of my earlier posts. I felt that the First Starshower we saw, was the explosion from the Battle of Silvertear Skies. We saw the release of the Primals and this somehow coincided with our awakening of the Echo. But it's kind of confusing because all that took place within an Echo itself, because it happened 10 years prior to our arrival to whichever City-State we chose(opening scenes I mean). But maybe that's just what happens when the Echo awakens within people. They see the 'beginning' the Starshower. As for the Second Starshower, I feel that that was a vision of what comes down the road, Minfilia tells us about people with the Echo being able to see what happens down the road and they don't want to speak of it. Regardless of which direction that Second Starshower took us (Yoshi-P or Tanaka) there was going to be some kind of huge exploding ball. With Yoshi-P it became Dalamud. When the Second Starshower happens, we blackout/passout afterwards that could just be the side-effect of seeing down the rabbit-hole so to speak.

So to sum it up:
First Starshower: the release of the Primals.
Second Starshower: Dalamud.

I may be completely wrong, but hopefully I helped in some way.

What proof do we have that the primals, who allegedly preside over the Umbral/Astral cycles of the city-states for potentially millennia, were born only 10 years ago in the Battle of Silvertear Skies? That'd be as if the Imperials flew in and made an a pre-existant (even if non-chronological in latent forces) Eorzea self-aware.

What relationship do we have between the dragons and the primals?

Any theories on the huge disparity in Imperial involvement between the first (Tanaka) and second (Yoshida) versions of the "second starshower"?

Why call the return of a single imprisoned 'sin' (Dalamud) a starshower of its own? Even if the fragmentation was similar enough, the differences seem pretty vast.

Do we have any idea as to the length of the eras? What other changes did the Silvertear Battle Starshower mark?

[NoloeTazier]

What proof do we have that the primals, who allegedly preside over the Umbral/Astral cycles of the city-states for potentially millennia, were born only 10 years ago in the Battle of Silvertear Skies? That'd be as if the Imperials flew in and made an a pre-existant (even if non-chronological in latent forces) Eorzea self-aware.

What relationship do we have between the dragons and the primals?

Any theories on the huge disparity in Imperial involvement between the first (Tanaka) and second (Yoshida) versions of the "second starshower"?

Why call the return of a single imprisoned 'sin' (Dalamud) a starshower of its own? Even if the fragmentation was similar enough, the differences seem pretty vast.

Do we have any idea as to the length of the eras? What other changes did the Silvertear Battle Starshower mark?

I didn't say they were born, they were merely released. On top of that Paragons appeared shortly after the Battle of Silvertear Skies and began teaching the Beast tribes how to summon the "God" they worship. 1564 Sixth Astral (2 years after the Battle of Silvertear Skies) the Amalj'aa were able to finally summon Ifrit. That's just an example but after the Battle and being taught how to summon the Primals by the Paragons, the Beast tribes began to stop trading crystals to the City States because they needed them to summon.

As for Dravanians and Primals, there was a NPC in Ul'dah that said the Dravanians worshipped a Dragon God. Probably Bahamut, but could as easily be another Dragon.

We're told that the Imperials halted their advance after Ala Mhigo because (again after Battle of Silvertear Skies) a Primals was summoned. The popular theories in the thread at the moment are it was either Odin or Ramuh that appeared/was summoned, because the next obvious invasion point would be North East Twelveswood and the Sylph tribe reside in this area. This could also be why the Sylph are hesitant to use their Primal, because they summoned Ramuh once before and they witnessed the destruction and power.

The 2nd Starshower was nothing like the 1st, the falling 'stars' were red in nature. I wouldn't call the difference vast, if Tanaka had carried on and used Dalamud in this way, who's to say it wouldn't look similar. It was just my theory that:

First Starshower: the release of the Primals.
Second Starshower: Dalamud.

I created a Timeline you should check it out, I went through every piece of NPC dialogue, Cutscene, Lodestone post, and Newspaper Article from the 3 papers: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post916706
Lots of things happened that year, 1562 of the Sixth Astral Era.

[Shurrikhan]

I created a Timeline you should check it out, I went through every piece of NPC dialogue, Cutscene, Lodestone post, and Newspaper Article from the 3 papers: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post916706
Lots of things happened that year, 1562 of the Sixth Astral Era.

Great timeline. I can't thank you enough. Sorry if I appeared to be questioning your theory specifically; that wasn't my intention. I'm just immensely curious about the subject and I thought you might now some of the all-too-many questions.