CG Midlander

[HiirNoivl]

I love this thread.

So the Ascian may have used the horn to summon Odin against the Garleans.

Is there more than one of these horns/summoning objects? If so, then maybe thats what Siren would be attached to, one of these.

I wonder if there are.. twelve?

[HiirNoivl]

Also there is a chance that Odin is the Ascian primal and we still have siren

[Seraphe]

Also there is a chance that Odin is the Ascian primal and we still have siren

No shadow here as well, none of the primals have one though.

I have watched the Odin scene about 50 times now. To my eyes it looks like Odin does NOT have a shadow. A reflection in the water, yes. But NO shadow. I could be mistaken.

[Anonymoose]

I have watched the Odin scene about 50 times now. To my eyes it looks like Odin does NOT have a shadow. A reflection in the water, yes. But NO shadow. I could be mistaken.

As much as I'd like to say that this must just be because he's in the darkness of The Black Shroud... the only thing I can bring myself to say is, "Hm! Well... look at that. He does not."

...

Huh.

Interesting...

[Digirotta]

Thanks for your encouraging input, Anonymoose!

I realize it's a potshot, and i really haven't delved into any other storylines, than of Limsa's. I haven't actually looked deeper into the lore until lately, and i'm amazed by all the small things i haven't noticed before. I think it's because i never realized when i started playing, that a lot of the cutscenes in the early storyline consisted of echoes of the past. That left me confused and ignorant of most parts of the whole main story.

I've got a lot more potshots ready (like, if legacy members given a mark/tattoo of our earlier efforts ingame, are Y'shtola, Thancred and that merry Gridanian couple also sent from the past to our time, and, if Urianger was declared as a temporary person, would that make him a woken one, that was merely experiencing an echo?) and i was wondering, before i start unloading them, is there any other sources of speculations i should look into, than this thread? I'd hate to go wild on something, only to notice that those matters have already been discussed earlier elsewhere.

[Anonymoose]

I'd hate to go wild on something, only to notice that those matters have already been discussed earlier elsewhere.

Honestly, that's usually inevitable, lol. The hardest thing to do is differentiate between unsolved questions of the past and unresolved storylines that still have exposition in the future. This thread was formed to close the case on a situation like the latter, and since then we keep going into the former. All part of the fun, I guess.

I do hope that as time goes on, we are able to resolve all of the non-upcoming things in Loremonger, which'll be quite a task, indeed.

[Seraphe]

Yea, that's what I thought as well but the moonlight just shines too bright, even in this forest. I guess there should be a shadow somewhere.

[NoloeTazier]

Very interesting, I hadn't even thought about Ascians having a Primal of their own. Maybe Travanchet took the Limsa Horn because the Horns not only work on regular monsters such as Goobbues, Coblyns, and Sea Serpents but also on Primals. But then of course I have to ask, why the Ascians didn't take the Ul'dah horn as well, since Corguevais clearly had a shadow.

When the Ixali came to Eorzea, they already worshiped Garuda. So Primals aren't a recent concept (summoning them may be) and they clearly have a deeper history than we currently can know. There could be an unlimited amount of Primals and they all feel some need to attach themselves to a group of beings, so the idea that Ascians, Garleans, and the 5 Races have Primals as well is easy to make. But you would think that the 5 Races would each have their own individual Primals as well and they just may, we'll have to see.

Very interesting theories being brought up, thanks.

[Anonymoose]

When the Ixali came to Eorzea, they already worshiped Garuda. So Primals aren't a recent concept (summoning them may be) and they clearly have a deeper history than we currently can know.

This is an interesting concept in and of itself, really; The Ixal show up in The Twelveswood in 1022 Sixth Astral Era still having the capability of flight, reverence for other creatures, and seemingly some semblance of sanity (Great. Talking like a lalafell now). Basically they were Yagudo. At this time, they already worship Garuda - but not as the Lady of the Vortex, but The Empress of Birds.

In the days when the Ixal were still happy and still had flight, they told stories of how she liberated the world from the Lord of Snakes, who sought to bind all things to earth. They explain away her fiery temper by saying that she was so wounded from this battle that she consumed the snake to heal her wounds and thus gained a taste for mortal flesh.

However, the Ixal quickly wear out their welcome in the Twelveswood due to unchecked consumption and reproduction and were exiled by the elementals. This ordeal didn't take very long at all. To do some math, they invented the Ixal balloons in about 1422 after "generations came and went" of being born with less and less feathers, which started happening after they arrived in Xelphatol (their true home is NOT Natalan, which is just a stronghold - the Empire has cracked down on Xelphatol pretty hard, though, so they may have fled recently).

Garuda's visage alone struck them as the greatest of all birds, which demanded the greatest of all reverence... but this has been in vain! The closer they get to her, the more her influence causes them to become alienated, restricted, and dependent on her. Their desperation to fly again, to be a functioning society again, to have the blessing and protection required to survive their new isolation and enemy status, depends entirely on Garuda, and to get it requires that they hand the Power of the Crystal over to her at all costs.

Keep in mind that this is all false legend. Garuda has no stake in any of this beyond her ability to monopolize aether in this reality. I'll let her speak for herself:

Landwalkers are worms, bound to crawl in filth. I shall scatter you all, for I am the wind! THE RECKONING COMES! The reckoning of all mortals. This is the price of your folly. The price of using the crystals' power─MY POWER!─to waken the other from slumber. That power belongs to me. All of it. It is mine. Mine! ALL MIIINE!!! You will not live to repeat your folly. It ends, worms of the forest. It all ends! Now, die. Die. Die! DIE!!! DIIIIIIEEE!!!

This inevitably lead to her summoning at the first available chance; 1562 (SAE) with the assistance of the Paragons. The way the lore talks about primals, it gets a little ambigous as to the where and when, especially when it comes to Titan and Leviathan. All available information suggests that no primal was summoned in recent history before the fall of Midgardsormr. The good news is that official SE releases lumped the summoning of Titan, Garuda, and Ifrit to the same date: ten years ago. Because Leviathan and Titan were pushed back at the same time, we can assume that Leviathan, too, was first raised in recent times ten years ago, as well, and Limsa Lominsa's Company of Heroes simply took them down with impressive speed and efficiency (God, we're badass).

The take-home message here is that the entities themselves are primordial, but the change in status-quo is very, very recent. The big question is... "Is this the first time this has happened?" The red moon of Allag seems to imply that is it not...

Sources:
'NEATH GARUDA'S SHADOW
Garuda, Ruler of the Skies!

[Catapult]

In the days when the Ixal were still happy and still had flight, they told stories of how she liberated the world from the Lord of Snakes, who sought to bind all things to earth. They explain away her fiery temper by saying that she was so wounded from this battle that she consumed the snake to heal her wounds and thus gained a taste for mortal flesh.

I wonder if this has any connection to the twin adders that appear on the heraldry of Gridania and its worship of Nophica, goddess of the Land.