CG Midlander

[Teakwood]

#mindblown and I KNEW they'd posted Siren concept art, thanks for linking that. <3

And- ahaha. I didn't say Midgardsormr was -intentionally- protecting Eorzea from the other Primals, just that it was, y'know... kind of happening as a side effect. :3 My theories prior to now involved the Primals being trapped in the Garlean airship or something, but the battle at Silvertear having a side effect of popping a hole into the Void open makes a lot more sense.

And, yes, I've been thinking for a while that Louisoix knows a lot that we don't - he HAD to have known that defeating the Primals would send their energy up into Dalamud. I am not sure how to reconcile that with the apparent fact that he wants the people of Eorzea to live and survive the conflict. I have a lot of hypotheses, but none that I feel terribly confident stating outright because there's not a lot of facts to support any of them.

Maybe it wasn't the entity within Dalamud that was sucking up the aether, but rather, Dalamud itself? Louisoix would have a reason to strengthen the Allagan prison - to buy time to do whatever deep magic from beyond the dawn of time he's cooking up - and this allows the entity within Dalamud to still be our enemy, as implied by its apparent possession of Nael van Darnus, and Nael's obsession with the Void.

It's also possible that the entity within Dalamud just wants to be free and was able to use Nael because his mind was already broken and cracked by madness, but... I'm not sure.

Edit: Or Louisoix could be Evil All Along but I don't feel that that's plausible.

[Anonymoose]

There's an NPC that gives a whole bunch of new backstory that I'm going through... and it seems to add up. In FFXIV lore, Midgardsormr was originally just referred to as "a primal" that caused the Garleans to pause - but now it's got a big expansion.

Silvertear Falls was once thought of as the center of all that was - it was the source of all water, and the source of all magic. When this came into being, so did Midgardsormr. He was worshipped by the locals and became known as the Keeper of the Lake.

Sound familiar?

It sounds like he was a primal that came to feed on the aether there (AETHER is "the source of all magic") - and in doing so garnered the worship of the locals much like how Ifrit and Garuda did to the Ixali and Amal'jaa.

Ceruleum is a red herring. This is all about aether.

Let's keep something else in mind...

Dalamud wasn't a solution to the problem. It was medicine, not a cure. The Circle of Knowing could be forcing all the band-aids we've put over our problems to fail so that we can root out the disease... that's why there here - to ensure that we'll be okay because it's gonna get a whole lot worse before it gets any better.

Let me take another what at theory generation... one moment.

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EDIT:

The Empire invades to take on Midgardsormr. After the battle, the other primals had a shot at this world again and seeded themselves among the populations. Again, we didn't notice Siren because we had The Twelve.

ENTER THE ARCHONS.

They go to the beast tribes and teach them to summon the primals, garnering the attention of the Empire, who seek to finish what they started by exterminating the primals and expanding into Eorzea. They come to us and prepare us for war just as The Empire's new actions bring Dalamud's descent.

They're setting us up to fix the problems we've been avoiding. Remember, when the Archons arrived, they were accused of STARTING the last umbral era, as well. Maybe this is just what they do - protect us by having us plunged into dark eras to face our problems in ways that they know will lead us to come out on top in a new golden age.

[Catapult]

From the promotional website:

FIRST EMPEROR OF GARLEMALD

His Radiance, Solus zos Galvus

"No lands must remain beyond our grasp. Go forth. Conquer. Rule."

Born of distinguished lineage in the Garlemald Republic, Solus zos Galvus began his military career at a young age. After a string of impressive victories on the field of battle, however, he soon attained the rank of legatus, and proceeded to integrate machina technology into the army's regular rank and file. With single-minded determination, Galvus transformed his fledgling nation into a formidable military power. His actions garnered the undivided support of the citizenry, and catapulted him into the position of Dictator, supreme commander of Garlemald. In the years that followed, Garlean forces conquered all the lands of the north and hammered them into a single entity. Galvus then instituted an imperial regime to govern their new territories, conferring upon himself the title of "Emperor." The eastern nations were the first to feel the newborn empire's mighty fist. It was during this campaign that the emperor witnessed firsthand the destruction wrought by the primals - an experience that led to an imperial mandate for their annihilation. Now an old man of more than eighty winters, Galvus yet rules as emperor, but court rumors speak of frail health and frequent illness.

So primals were encountered by Garlemald well before they even approached Ala Mhigo.

Sorry if that throws a spanner in your theory, Moose.

[Anonymoose]

DOUBLE EDIT

Okay, so the northlands were the first he conquered - but they were isolated city-states that he "hammered into one entity" and THEN the east felt their collective fist. Got it. The east were just the first legitimate nations to feel their wrath, lol.

Sorry if that throws a spanner in your theory, Moose.

It's not so much a spanner in my theory as a massive (and welcome) simplification of it.

That means Midgardsormr wasn't The Only for very long (if ever). Perhaps the reason we saw the primal explosion ball was that he was the last? If the north and eastern kingdoms had been conquered, that means their primals were likely destroyed... and Midgardsormr's power consolidated until his defeat let all the weakened ones zone back over from the void for another shot?

I don't know, I'm gonna have to think about all this - gonna let it marinate for a bit.

EDIT

However, the unanticipated appearance of a primal shortly thereafter prompted the Empire to halt the legion's advance.

See, now we're throwing a wench into the wrench that was thrown in the theory...

I'd say that says the extermination order exists but isn't why they're here - so they come for the ceruleum or the pillaging ... and find Midgardsormr? How did they not expect that - the NPC says it's been worshipped as the protector of Silvetear Falls since back when they called it the source of all water and magic. Bad research on the invasion team's part, I must say.

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I really think we're just gonna have to wait for ARR on those.

And wait for Ferne on what's up with the cutscenes (though I think we did pretty well at figuring it out.)

I'll have to go back and edit all my other posts to prevent people from reading errors... and to prevent Ferne from having to read an entire book he already knows is bollocks XD

[Anonymoose]

Apologies for the double post, but it's post-relevant

I JUST FREAKING GOT IT.

So right now I'm in the middle of backing up all my cutscenes (and making a compilation video for ARR's backstory, tentatively titled "THE STORY OF ANONY MOOSE: THINKER, FIGHTER, LOVER, LEGEND") and I just had a breakthrough (aside from the fact that my theories are going to have holes in them because the Unending Journey doesn't have instances in it (booo!)).

Now that we know a lot more of the story, the beginning of it (SURPRISE) makes a lot more sense. The one thing I'm having a hard time with is why walkers see a meteor shower. At first, I thought it was the same primal explosion we see in the beginning - as one rains over the ocean just prior to Leviathan showing up. But then some shadowless ghost guy comes realm-hopping through it, so I'll keep working on that...

The it seems that the Circle of Knowing are just echo-hopping their way through time when they come across us, intertwining us in the story. Despite the fact that we spend the majority of the first four levels in echoes, they don't seem to notice that we have the power, and we don't seem to notice what's going on. Let's look at Limsa's example of this, for instance.

You're on the boat, and you hear an entity tell you some words from Answers. You've been woken to the Echo. After you pass a man named Rostnsthal, you walk above deck and witness the "starshower," possibly seeing how Leviathan originally arrived in these waters. Something in the ship's cargo has drawn him here - and as he draws near, the aurelias are whipped into a frenzy, attacking the ship.

Because this moment is important, Y'shtola echo-jumps into the scene, and ends up saving your ass. During this scene, Sthalmann firing his weapon (more on this in a moment) as he is undercover on board. Thankfully, the ship arrives in Limsa. However, not everyone on the dock seems to remember the events the same way you do...

FUN FACT: When you try telling someone afterwards that you heard a songstress, they ask you if you're sure it wasn't "just a Siren." (OHOHOHO MAN.)

After this point, any time you hear a WHOOSH in a cutscene, either someone's echo jumping into it, or you're accidentally jumping out of it. (I've started playing this game called "Where's Y'shtola - as you can find her hiding in the background of many echo jumps even though she's not shown and has no lines.) Again, Limsa's story for instance. You and Y'shtola are "walking" the same "path" at this point. Baderon says that you're not the first person to come to him with these talks, and you're echo-synced to his memory of talking to Y'shtola. Likewise, she jumps into your conversation with the guy trying to buy your balloonfish.

Afterwards, you go to the MSK guild and the recruiter asks to see your firing stance. Emulating what you saw from Sthalmann on the ship, this reminds the recruiter of him - this memory echo-jumps you back to a scene where Stalmann recruits Merodaulyn for the Seal Rock expedition. There, another man in that scene takes the gun from you, and you echo-jump back to the present. Except that d-bag in another time kept your gun. That's why no one can find it. This mentor recommends you find a new pistol mentor...

Upstairs, you Emerick for the first time when the term "5th Levy" causes a registrar to echo-jump you back to when he'd tried to infiltrate the Barracudas; when escorting Sisipu to Oschon's Torch lighthouse shortly after, you'll see him again, colluding with Travanchet to betray the Seal Rock expedition to the Sahagin.

After escorting Sisipu, you pass the pirate Rosnsthal in town and are echo-jumped back to a memory of Commodore Sthalmann discussing the interrogation of Captain Hob. H'naanza mentions the sea serpent, which shocks him. He assures you that there's no such thing and commands her to keep quiet. Afterwards, Barracudas arrive to explain that the Seal Rock expedition has been killed with heavy losses to the 5th Levy.

While in town in present-day, the men at the MSK guild already know what has happened to the Fifth, so the events with Leviathan on the boat, which happened before Sthalmann was informed about the Fifth, must have been entirely echo. I'm still trying to see exactly how long ago the Seal Rock expedition was.

Baderon recalls the last time he'd heard of it, and echo-jumps back to someone informing him of the Seal Rock incident. We have three baselines for a date: Baderon refers to himself as a "sprat" at this age, Sisipu cannot be older than 5~10, and The Astalicia is still in service, as it is credited with driving Leviathan back. Within two weeks of this, the admiral is dead, so perhaps we can use Merlwyb's inaguration as a reference point, as well.

I'll keep digging and editing this post!

Also, TWELVE DAMN I LOVE LIMSA. I'll do this for the other cities later, if need be.

TRUE TIMELINE (Adjusted for Errors as I Go)
Leviathan attacks Hob's ship, Sthalmann is aboard investigating its cargo and passengers
References to Leviathan are covered up
Emerick, associated with The Kraken's Arms, infiltrates the Barracudas
Merodaulyn, assoicaited with the Sanguine Sirens, infiltrates the Barracudas
Emerick betrays the Barracudas to the Sahagin and kills those at Oschon's Torch
Emerick allows the Sahagin to destroy Brookhaven, scarring a child Sisipu
Sthalmann hires H'naanza to build a ship
The Seal Rock expedition returns a tablet with Rhotano Bloodcant written on it
The Barracuda's Seak Rock expedition and 5th Levy are destroyed by the Sahagin
Merodaulyn escapes Seal Rock, Mannskoen is killed
The Krakens Arms reach Seal Rock
Sthalmann and the Barracudas take Emermick from The Astalicia
Emerick is hidden on a Barracuda ship that's kept anchored at sea
Merodaulyn comes to the ship to assist him, as they've been working together
Believing he Emerick is there, the Sanguine Sirens attack the ACN guild
The Sahagin, with Travanchet aboard, attack the three Barracuda ships, stranding one
Leviathan interrupts the battle, engulfing everything around in with a tidal wave
Leviathan is driven back (either by Pirates or the Barracudas; both are given credit)
Sthalmann, Merodaulyn, and Emerick meet at Sisipu's fishing spot to raise the treasure
Sthalmann claims that the tablet was thrown into the ocean to drive back Leviathan
Sthalmann demands the arrest of Y'shtola, despite the Admiral's protection
Sthalmann meets Y'shtola, but she quickly challenges him - they fight
The sky rains meteors again, Travanchet forms from one of the falling flames
Travanchet disappears with the treasure
You arrive in Limsa
A pistol in your hands is taken by Mannskoen in an echo.
You escort Sisipu to the lighthouse (they want to ensure their safety due to last time...)
Hob escorts you to the anchored Barracuda ship
On the ship, you echo the sahagin battle, passing out
The Barracudas come to see what Hob is doing, arresting him
Rosnsthal prevents you from being arrested with Hob
You turn yourself in, but are released
You go to Gods' Grip, where all the echoes are pointing
You meet Blackburn there, but pass out after echo-jumping inside of an echo

Fun Fact: Y'shtola had no idea until this point that you even had the echo. Maybe she thought you were just turning up at her jump points a lot? This story doesn't mesh very well with her Archon status in the Seventh Umbral Era storyline. I'm wondering if Ferne is going to say that a lot of this stuff I'm saying is moot.

EDIT: Interesting Leviathan Lore
It is said that Leviathan was created by Llymlean, the Navigator, herself, to fill the world with oceans. Knowing that it wouldn't stop until the world was submerged, she sealed it within Swallowtail Roam, a magical island.

Kinda reminds me of the prophecies about the Seventh Umbral Era beginning with deluge.

[InuraBera]

Love this thread - looking forward to further theories and the 11th.

[Zenaku]

btw i think the Leviathan we came to think off is not the real one because in 2.0 he is dead you see his bones. Also from the 2.0 art work Leviathan have a diff color from the one we see in the LL storyline i may be wrong but that just my input about that.

[Raldo]

Good lord. I'm torn. Anonymoose, your explanation makes the most sense, and yet I hate it. If they're seriously weaving such a convoluted story, a majority of people (myself included) that play through it will never understand what's going on half the time, just like FFXI's CoP missions.

I'll just be over here banging my head against a wall.

[Nox]

This has been a great read. Sad I can't really add much to this discussion ._. but it was certainly a pleasure reading all the posts

It would be awesome if they used the Echo to flashback events pre ARR. I would love to see Nael van Darnus again even if just through the echo xD

[Catapult]

Sorry, Moose. I have another spanner for your gobcogs.

Where you have deeply looked into Limsa, I've spent more time digging around Gridania. Your assertion that Ysh'tola was echo-hopping for half the story implies the rest of the circle of knowing were as well, but this is undermined by what Yda and Papalymo teach us.

The very opening scene is where we meet these two. While they seem to understand moogle-speak, Yda thinks they must be in the afterlife. They also seem rather shocked at the end of the third quest when they realise they were looking at the past with you. It suggests that they got their echo skill at about the same time you did and if they were indeed echo hopping (and that opening sequence gets really complicated if they are), then they themselves are equally unaware of it.

Later on in Futures Perfect, whichever archon you have followed tells you that they plan to find out who gave them this power. They themselves suggest that they do not know.

No, I believe the person doing the majority of the echo hopping is you.


And that brings me to a different thought. When did the members of the circle of knowing become archons? Are they really incarnations of the Twelve in the flesh like the archons of yore, or did they simply choose to adopt the title for the purpose of progressing their cause? Their cause being the unification of the city states against the impending threats.