CG Midlander

[Zenaku]

Well something HAS to stop him or distract him for the world to be rebuilt in 5 years as others have questioned this as well and what will be Bahamut's behavior as we play ARR he will be out there. i have mentioned this before that it could be portrayed like Acnologia an era ending dragon in the anime Fairy Tail Lore ...hes out there and there's a chance he can show up and if he does that's it for that civilization and humanity has to practically start over again which could serve as an explanation to the 7 Umbral eras ending and beginning

They could just simple say that mangaflare he use to get free from the seal reforming use too much of his powers. He went to find his wyverns beastmen to help him get his powers back. It would also explain how us humans can easy kill him later on in the storyline. Like ifrit and garuda there primals but we easy stop them without much issue my idea for that is that beastmen just did not have enough power to summon the true power of he primal from the other world.

[NoloeTazier]

Well something HAS to stop him or distract him for the world to be rebuilt in 5 years as others have questioned this as well and what will be Bahamut's behavior as we play ARR he will be out there. i have mentioned this before that it could be portrayed like Acnologia an era ending dragon in the anime Fairy Tail Lore ...hes out there and there's a chance he can show up and if he does that's it for that civilization and humanity has to practically start over again which could serve as an explanation to the 7 Umbral eras ending and beginning

Yeah but think about, a Labyrinth appears and reseals Bahamut? Nah. Either after the attack Bahamut is drained and has to rest, sort of like how Nidhogg is resting right now but can still control the Dragoon from the AF Quests. Or Bahamut goes off to 'reign,' I sorta just made up the spot in the sky because Midgarsormr is HUGE and just appears from the sky, where was he lurking? Who knows. I just think it's impractical for Bahamut to go Goblin King and design a Labyrinth. I think the Labyrinth exists and it's either under the Sharlayan's protection for knowledge purposes or under the Dravnians control.

[NoloeTazier]

The Echo is a special ability that some rare individuals possess, and an important part of Final Fantasy XIV's storyline. Those that have been 'gifted', as the members of the Path of the Twelve calls it, have the power to resonate with other people's souls - and see their past, albeit not able to interfere or change it, as well as being able to speak every language in the world. It has been reported that this power is awakening over the last ten years, with no signal of its existence before that time.

So if the Power of the Echo was given to us, there's 2 possible sources:
1.) Althyk (the surveyor of change and space and god of time).
We can go into people's pasts and literally 'survey' what happened. When we 'return' to the present we retain the knowledge of what we saw and heard.

2.) A Primal.
If The Twelve didn't give us the power and Power of the Echo and more people seem to have been given the power in the last 10 years, and 10 years ago the Primals were either freed or awaken by the Battle of Silvertear Skies. Ifrit, Garuda, Leviathan, and Titan (maybe even Ramuh to the Sylphs? I remember the Sylphs saying they did not wish to summon their Primal, I think it was a NPC in Gridania during one of the quests) all seemed to seek out certain groups, it's not that farfetched to think that a Primal would seek Eorzeans. Again I think this backs up Anonymoose's theory that Siren is our Primal.

Anyone who possess the Echo is branded as a beastman by the Garlean Empire, and therefore is considered an enemy of the empire.

If we're now Beastmen because The Echo, and Primals only seek Beastmen, then sure why not. Also the Garleans are an advanced race who may have discovered knowledge about Primals or The Echo from other lands and aren't just arbitrarily branding us as Beastmen.

[Warlock]

I wan't to see what did the Black Wolf do on his ship after witnessing Bahamut's rampage as he was cooking Eorzean's and Imperial troops all the same. Did he retreat? or went ahead and attacked Bahamut?
It's not clear still why Midgarsormr had to die on that battle against the empire he was obviously owning them and how the massive energy he releases when falling with that ship calls forth countless Primals that are shot to all directions imagine the possibilities.

[NoloeTazier]

I wan't to see what did the Black Wolf do on his ship after witnessing Bahamut's rampage as he was cooking Eorzean's and Imperial troops all the same. Did he retreat? or went ahead and attacked Bahamut?
It's not clear still why Midgarsormr had to die on that battle against the empire he was obviously owning them and how the massive energy he releases when falling with that ship calls forth countless Primals that are shot to all directions imagine the possibilities.

They explained that the Ceruleum fuel used for the engines exploded. I'd say the massive energy we saw was more so from the Agrias and Midgarsormr crashing into the Silvertear Lake, the impact possibly hitting The Crystal Tower and releasing the Primals. Yoshi-P said Midgarsormr wasn't a Primal so if he has nothing to do with Primals, you'd have to assume it wasn't him and was probably something else. One way to seal Primals? Store them inside a huge aether crystal, they never need to move, they can sit and lie dormant and just gorge themselves. Now wake them up and partially destroy their source? They go seeking the Beastmen and gorge themselves on hoarded Crystals.

[Zenaku]

I wan't to see what did the Black Wolf do on his ship after witnessing Bahamut's rampage as he was cooking Eorzean's and Imperial troops all the same. Did he retreat? or went ahead and attacked Bahamut?
It's not clear still why Midgarsormr had to die on that battle against the empire he was obviously owning them and how the massive energy he releases when falling with that ship calls forth countless Primals that are shot to all directions imagine the possibilities.

The ship he killed hold the pirmal he free them from the empire at least that what it seem or what i heard. The empire took all the primal and midgarsormr use all his power to free them from the empire then they shot all over A: Return back to where they came or B: fight in that battle before going back to there world.

[Icecylee]

Sort of off topic, but man, a lot of important stuff seems to have gone down ten years ago. Battle at Silvertear Lake, the Echo suddenly appearing, IIRC that's also when the Paragon appeared before the beastmen tribes, not to mention the first time that Dalamud briefly turned red (presumably when Cid's father was destroying a city on accident)... I wonder how much of the background happening at the ten year ago mark is going to wind up being deeply intertwined, and how much was just a coincidence.

Hell, even that Ishgardian being taken in by the Gridandians from the Conjurer class quest was about ten years ago, wasn't it? (I am going to wind up spending so many days after ARR launches just rewatching all the modified story segments in the unending journey to re-familiarize myself with the lore/story instead of leveling ACN, haha )

[Catapult]

I figured I should cross-post a little Q&A style analysis I did tucked away in one of the other threads, so more people get to see it here:

Some personal analysis in a Q&A format...

Why seal Bahamut? Why not just kill him?

Because a defeated primal can be re-summoned from the aether. We've experienced this problem first-hand. By sealing Bahamut, you lock up his sentience and prevent that being drawn back out into a new corpearal form by the dragons.

Why would ancient Allag banish this "great sin" to the sky?

Because primals absorb aether from the land as food. Move Bahamut's prison far enough away from the land and you are essentially starving him of the energy needed to break free.

((Extra context: Gaius tells us that it was the Allagan Empire that originally banished Dalamud. This suggests it happened during the 4th or 5th Umbral era, since Allag was founded in the 3rd Astral and the 6th Umbral was associated with flooding.))

So how did Darnus bring Dalamud down?

By feeding him. The lunar transmitter looks like a powerful aether cannon, sending aether gathered from the land right up to a hungry dragon. OmNomNom!
A hungry beast will move closer to its food source. And the best source with which to generate this food is Silvertear Falls, both the heart of the aether stream and the heart of Nael's enemy's territory. How convenient!

What are the consequences of Dalamud getting closer?

Bahamut's power and influence begins to recover. This allows a little investment in Darnus to replace a broken lunar transmitter and the ability to pick up the latent aether of other dispelled primals. (So on the point of knocking out primals that feed on the land's aether, it becomes a damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-don't situation.) By the time you've properly dealt with Darnus, Dalamud is close enough for it to not matter any more. Sure that extra energy feed would have been nice, but Bahamut can take care of himself by now.


Next topic.

Do the Twelve exist?

Yes. During the third Gridanian quest, "Beckon of the Elementals", a moogle brings you a message.
"The great arbor spirit Everschade has spoken and we have listened, kupo. Those beckoned by the forest are messengers of Nophica herself."
There is plenty of other anecdotal evidence that others have shared.

So how are they summoned?

Louisoix appears to do so through the use of divine symbols. Likewise, we see the Amaljaa's summoning of Ifrit in a cutscene involve placing a symbol on the ground before Ifrit comes forth. This theory is reinforced by information that the arcanist class will form the basis of the summoner job in ARR.

So is Louisoix an arcanist?

We can probably assume so and likewise for Urianger, who wields a type of staff seen used by the arcanists of Maelvan's Gate. This also helps explain the presence of a divine symbol upon Louisoix's staff and his admission that it was by his hand the thirteen "altars" had appeared (this admission is made at the start of "Living on a Prayer").

So why the pilgrimage? Why not just cast the spell?

An aetherial being can hardly be summoned unless its sentience is roused. It needs to WANT to come out (and Ifrit and Garuda are all too happy). The Twelve were in a deep slumber, possibly acutely aware of what impact their corpearal presence would have on a realm that has had a good chunk of it's aether consumed in a giant seal. We needed to get through to them that we needed them again. Badly.

And who better to lead those prayers than the hero who defeated Darnus whose exploits have been spread and praised throughout the grand companies? You have become a leader and a role model and will be followed and imitated for maximum effectiveness. You are a beacon to the people more than the twelve directly.

Why would the Empire allow this?

They wouldn't. Obsessed with Nhilism, Van Darnus has been witholding the true nature of Dalamud and deceiving His Radiance.

Moving on...

Ahhhh, that is true. The phrase is definitely ambiguous enough for the "unanticipated" primal to be those that came into the world on Midgardsormr's death, isn't it...

Good call, there.

As for draconic beastmen, it's going to be interesting to see how they bring this in. The game seems to imply that the beast tribes we have now were once normal animals that were transformed, possibly by their gods. Might the Amal'jaa just be salamanders? The Ixal vultures? The Kobolds rodents? If each of these is true, it certainly holds possible that the dragons were gifted in some way, as well.

That part is also a little ambiguous though - the beast tribes might have just been made more... mean... by the primals, lol.

I agree with the "ambiguous" bit. It's just not clear. I also found this on the Lodestone, or more specifically the Mythril Eye discussing the Carriers of the Cauldron:

Of Beasts and Branding
“Beast tribe” is a designation of Garlean origin, given to those races the Empire deems detestable. Equivalent to an earmarking for extermination, the label is attached on account of association with primals—beatific beings who, amid certain circles, command godlike reverence. In stark contrast, the primals are held in highest hatred by the Garleans, who, besides calling them by the derogatory denomination eikon, have sought to suppress with startling single-mindedness any species suspected to summon them.

It was approximately ten years ago that the last of the beastmen was driven out from Ul’dah. Faced with an impending imperial invasion, the Syndicate passed a policy to purge the sultanate of all beastmen, who found themselves unceremoniously banished by the bevy. Overnight, the sight of sylvan crystal merchants and goblin junk dealers alike up and vanished from the Sapphire Avenue Exchange. Despite the decree’s dubiousness, it was warmly welcomed by the majority of merchants, who regarded reduced rivalry with relish.

Of late, however, the disputed decision of a decade past is threatening to float to the fore, engendered by the emergence of a grizzled goblin geomancer named Mutamix Bubblypots...

Of Mutamix and Materia
According to adventurer accounts, Mutamix first appeared in the wilds of Thanalan less than a moon past with his apprentices in tow, a rag-tag band calling themselves Carriers of the Cauldron. Wasting no time in setting up shop, he proceeded to promote a peculiar matter called materia, which is claimed to be capable of galvanizing gear. Before long, word of Mutamix and his miracle method for augmenting arms and armor had spread like wildfire across the adventurer population.

Inevitably, Ul’dahn merchants, too, came to know of this new player in the field. Unsurprisingly, there were those who felt fearful of Mutamix, convinced that the goblin would incite instability in a market governed by protectionist policies. Such is the acuteness of their aversion, they went so far as to petition the Immortal Flames for the expeditious eradication of all goblins roaming the region.

In contrast to this knee-jerk reaction of self-preservation, there are those who expressly endorse materia, considering it a catalyst for expediting economic expansion. Even now, the market is astir with tolerant traders who are making to maximize their monies by means of the matter, and who have taken a stand against actions that are like to damage Ul’dah-goblin relations.

Sultanate decree distinctly dictates that no goblins are to set foot on Ul’dahn soil. Naught, however, is stipulated of their presence outside her walls. And now two factions stand opposed: those who desire the decimation of goblins versus those who believe it would best behoove the nation to leave them in peace. I, for one, envy not in the least the Immortal Flames’ prickly position.

Our city-state stands at the crossroads of a commercial crisis, and The Mythril Eye will continue to closely monitor the movement of all individuals involved in the unfolding drama.

Havak Alvak

The assertion that the Beastmen were once no more than beasts may very well be racist exaggeration. However, two things still bug me:
- When did Eorzeans start using the Garlean term of "beastmen" that allowed it to become a perfectly acceptable term attracting absolutely no backlash by the time we start playing the game? And if this term could be so well engrained, why aren't we calling the primals "eikons" with equal willingness? It seems a bit of a contradiction.
- The paragon taught the tribes how to summon their primals, but this newspaper article confirms that they held a reverence to their said primal well before. How long has it been since these primals walked the land?



Oh, and I'm still no where near sold on the "Siren is our primal" concept. That can't not be Shiva in the poster either.

[Anonymoose]

Oh, and I'm still no where near sold on the "Siren is our primal" concept.

Me either, really, but it's an interesting idea. If it were true, the little hints to it would sure be subtle/brilliant. I've heard cases for Odin and even Alexander... it's still pretty up in the air, methinks.

[Zenaku]

Me either, really, but it's an interesting idea. If it were true, the little hints to it would sure be subtle/brilliant. I've heard cases for Odin and even Alexander... it's still pretty up in the air, methinks.

The idea of Siren being our primal is just the gift she give a few of us in eorzea by giving this gift she made other primals and even the empire think of us as enemies. Sure she not really our primal but she could have give us that gift so now we are like her beastmen like how the other primals found some thing in the world to give a gift to.

But pretty much that my idea and everything is up in the air like you said.