FFXIVARR Lower stats for token items

[darkstarpoet1]

I'm not asking for that. I'll deal with what-ever system they throw at me. If it's not the best, then I don't want it. It's that simple, and always will be. The entire system was supposed to be designed to feel a sense of progress if you're unlucky. So my reward is a token for an item that isn't as good? Hooray, no advancement what-so-ever.

If they wanted me to obtain 200 tokens for a Darklight Curiass. At least I know in 200 runs I would have a Curiass (I have one already, this is an example). Now I may need to run 30 times for a GimpCuriass with -20% stats for all we know. Those 30 runs mean nothing. I could have used those to obtain the real armor if I was unlucky.

If they implement both systems i'm fine with that. People have other obligations, and don't have enough time. I understand, but I do not want to be given a token for an item that is not up to par with the real drop. To me this system they have in mind if designed purely for those with not enough time, while people who have the time still have to put up with RNG/Timers.

i have to agree with you here. if they want to give a piece of downgraded gear for 25 tokens that's fine with me, but for those that want to put in the effort i feel as though they should have the option to get the real piece of gear as well. let's say 25 tokens for the lower version and give an option that for 250 tokens you can get the better version. this way even if you are unlucky on getting the better piece you can see progress that you are advancing toward the better gear.

[Shougun]

You guys seem to be forgetting the one important thing. If you use tokens to get the best gear from content then no one will do the content anymore. Look at what happened with Garuda. There is more to designing a game than just giving the players everything they want, especially an mmo where you have to account for the time it will take you to develop the next set of content. You have to design it in a way that rewards them but keeps them coming back for an extended period of time. If its all tokenized then that means that sooner rather than later you are going to end up with everyone having all the gear, getting bored, and not playing anymore which will kill the game.

The only way to balance it correctly in the case of tokenized gear is to either
A: Put an obscene lockout time on the amount of tokens you can get during a specific time frame so players won't be able to accumulate mass amounts in the initial burn sessions right after a piece of content is release

OR

B: Put the token cost high enough that it keeps the players spamming the dungeons constantly to work towards their goal of getting a piece of gear.

Do either of those sound optimal to you?

I think you forget this ALWAYS happens in an mmo.

The second someone has it they will stop doing it. All my post suggested was to make two modes

cheap lite armor:
few tokens

full version:
many more tokens

So.. not sure what you think you are saying to me.

[Req]

I think you forget this ALWAYS happens in an mmo.

The second someone has it they will stop doing it. All my post suggested was to make two modes

cheap lite armor:
few tokens

full version:
many more tokens

So.. not sure what you think you are saying to me.

It wasn't a direct statement at you it was just just a general post to everyone that is so against tokenizing lesser gear. And yeah, it happens in every game, but the job of an mmo developer is to develop a game that will prevent this from happening for a long enough time period that it will keep people playing from patch to patch so they aren't losing out on revenue.

As far as your suggestion goes, I would be fine with that. If people want to spam the content an absurd amount of times thats up to them. I would probably end up doing it too but I am not necessarily in it for the gear as I am to just have fun playing a game.

I just wanted to point out that people don't seem to realize that if SE catered entitled mentality the players have it would be the death of the game.

[Rubyxiii]

So much QQing over potentially nothing.

For all we know, the 'lesser' gear you get could be just a stat point or two behind the normal gear.

We also have no idea at all the amount of tokens needed to trade for the 'lesser' gear, the drop rate of the Darklight type gear, or the cooldown to enter a dungeon.

Four critical parts to this equation are unknown and people are already complaining abut the assumed result???

What is there to complain about? Rampant and wild speculation is the best we can do at this point.

I think we're pretending SE is listening to us and voicing our opinions before the system is finalized. In general it's wiser to plan proactively rather than retroactively, again assuming SE is listening and our opinions are even part of the planning process. The lesser gear thing is quoted, not born of speculation, the degree of "lesser", however, is. In my personal opinion the degree of "lesser" is irrelevant, I'll still want the full piece regardless of the size of stat penalty. I think most of the people complaining are on the same page, I'll work for the best in slot piece and am not really enticed by anything less.

[Xenor]

Basically, the only thing that we could be frustrated about is that in no way does it say that you get more tokens based on how well you did the event/run/dungeon. If there were clear objectives earning you an extra token or two in the dungeons which would require time and skill (like killing a tough NM in a room or open all chests), then the "better" players would get more reward tokens for their effort than the ones just completing the run in the same week.

The best solution to that is to have two types of token. You get your usual token for completing the run but if you want that awesome "speed run" loot you need your high tier token or whatever you want to call it, which can only be obtained upon completion of a speed run. These tokens can purchase the loot that is obtained from going the extra mile in content. I know we won't have speed runs in ARR but there will most likely be similar challenges that reward players who do more than just waddle through.

[RoosterAgathos]

The best solution to that is to have two types of token. You get your usual token for completing the run but if you want that awesome "speed run" loot you need your high tier token or whatever you want to call it, which can only be obtained upon completion of a speed run. These tokens can purchase the loot that is obtained from going the extra mile in content. I know we won't have speed runs in ARR but there will most likely be similar challenges that reward players who do more than just waddle through.

This. Reward people for going the extra mile... and make that extra mile 10 miles long. enough of the game has been made casual super friendly.

[Shougun]

It wasn't a direct statement at you it was just just a general post to everyone that is so against tokenizing lesser gear. And yeah, it happens in every game, but the job of an mmo developer is to develop a game that will prevent this from happening for a long enough time period that it will keep people playing from patch to patch so they aren't losing out on revenue.

As far as your suggestion goes, I would be fine with that. If people want to spam the content an absurd amount of times thats up to them. I would probably end up doing it too but I am not necessarily in it for the gear as I am to just have fun playing a game.

I just wanted to point out that people don't seem to realize that if SE catered entitled mentality the players have it would be the death of the game.

If they gave the gear out for free I can understand - that's a matter of getting the right token costs. If they are making it so each week (cant remember the specifics) you get 3 tokens to spend gambling for the full version out right, and if you fail you get a token to spend at the npc. Then all you have to do is go "how long do I want them to work for a full version at maximum" if they say I want 10 runs max for 1 item, then make the cost of the full version 10 tokens.

I think the lesser gear would be interesting if it is a lower level. Then you can go run a high level dungeon for really good lower level gear for another class/job.

Then it would be even cooler:

Gamble for gear out right, if you fail get any gear.
Spend token on cheaper good lower level gear,
(though there should still be an option for decent same level cheap gear),
Spend more tokens on good higher level gear.

But as someone else said - you dont run a dungeon for the shitty gear, people are always shooting for the primal weapon, not the primal weapon -1.

[Dzian]

Look at what happened with Garuda. There is more to designing a game than just giving the players everything they want,

The problem with garuda wasn't the content or the totems It was the mage burn exploit trick whatever you want to call it. people found a way to cheat it and ground the hell out of it day and night in a race to get weapons before it was fixed.

thus either people ground the hell out of it and got there weapons, or they simply gave up cos it was too difficult. has nothing really to do with the totems

[Orophin]

You guys seem to be forgetting the one important thing. If you use tokens to get the best gear from content then no one will do the content anymore. Look at what happened with Garuda.

The problem with garuda wasn't the content or the totems It was the mage burn exploit trick whatever you want to call it. people found a way to cheat it and ground the hell out of it day and night in a race to get weapons before it was fixed.

thus either people ground the hell out of it and got there weapons, or they simply gave up cos it was too difficult. has nothing really to do with the totems

Yep, was going to bring up the same point. People stopped doing Garuda because they took advantage of the BLM burn and got their tokens. It wasn't intended to be able to beat the fight that easily. After the BLM burn, hardly anyone did the fight because they either had their tokens or couldn't beat the fight.

By the time I had enough tokens to buy three weapons (I did the fight legit with my LS), I had already gotten three from the fight itself. 120 tokens, maybe earning 10 per night, it probably took me roughly 2 weeks to get where I did. And that's just one piece of content.

Ideally there will be at least 3 different dungeons you can run in any given content patch. Depending on how often they want to cycle through equipment, 2-3 weeks will either be perfect or way too short of a time period for people to gear up through each dungeon. I would expect each content patch to last a MINIMUM of 3 months.

[Req]

The problem with garuda wasn't the content or the totems It was the mage burn exploit trick whatever you want to call it. people found a way to cheat it and ground the hell out of it day and night in a race to get weapons before it was fixed.

thus either people ground the hell out of it and got there weapons, or they simply gave up cos it was too difficult. has nothing really to do with the totems

While that has a bit of merit I honestly don't believe that the blm burn was the end all be all for garuda. Had it not existed it is more likely that people would have continued to do the content for maybe another month hardcore and would have been burnt out by then. I think it was more about the fact that learning the black mage burn was way easier and less time consuming, but had it not existed you would have had people doing it the normal way in pick up groups within a few weeks, getting all their tokens and being done with it because once you learn the fight it is just as easy to get your totems as it was when you were doing the black mage method.