FFXIVARR Lower stats for token items

[Dzian]

the main gripe over the last 2 years is people wanted to feel they are making progress towards the stuff they wanted items weapons etc.

if the tokens are only used for lesser gears then there's still no progress towards what people want. you could have 100 tokens and you'd still be no closer to that main piece of armor you wanted 100 runs ago.

and it's likely that if you have say 4/5 pieces on a particular set you could see the 4 pieces you already have dropping over and over again and never see the one piece you actually need drop. thus even with guaranteed drops it could quite easily be the same stuff time after time after time.

Amazing how they take a simple idea, and turn it into an overly complicated poor idea. Who settles for second best?

Offering the main drops for tokens is the best way. you go to av for your corselet you don't get it but you get a token so at least you know that no matter what in x number of wins you will have it. keeps you motivated. knowing that each time you're a little bit closer to your goal.

[Guevara]

the main gripe over the last 2 years is people wanted to feel they are making progress towards the stuff they wanted items weapons etc.

if the tokens are only used for lesser gears then there's still no progress towards what people want. you could have 100 tokens and you'd still be no closer to that main piece of armor you wanted 100 runs ago.

and it's likely that if you have say 4/5 pieces on a particular set you could see the 4 pieces you already have dropping over and over again and never see the one piece you actually need drop. thus even with guaranteed drops it could quite easily be the same stuff time after time after time.


Offering the main drops for tokens is the best way. you go to av for your corselet you don't get it but you get a token so at least you know that no matter what in x number of wins you will have it. keeps you motivated. knowing that each time you're a little bit closer to your goal.

That's it. Dzian totally got the right point. Further discussion not needed, imho.

[Arcell]

Let's not create further elitism by having two sets of stats for gear. Just do it like Garuda, same stats same item. Getting the gear right now often has nothing to do with skill and everything to do with luck. Someone could do 100 AV speed runs and have crazy gear/skill and never see a Corselet. Someone could join in their first AV speed run and get lucky and get a Corselet. At least reward people for persistence with the same gear.

[Elexia]

Let's not create further elitism by having two sets of stats for gear. Just do it like Garuda, same stats same item. Getting the gear right now often has nothing to do with skill and everything to do with luck. Someone could do 100 AV speed runs and have crazy gear/skill and never see a Corselet. Someone could join in their first AV speed run and get lucky and get a Corselet. At least reward people for persistence with the same gear.

Best part about this argument? People in XI hated SE for doing this lol. The stagger system is exactly what this is, while it's not purely based on skill performance it's a way of rewarding people for doing x condition in a fight outright. You may not get the rarest item even with staggering but you're guaranteed most items this way.

[Req]

Let's not create further elitism by having two sets of stats for gear. Just do it like Garuda, same stats same item. Getting the gear right now often has nothing to do with skill and everything to do with luck. Someone could do 100 AV speed runs and have crazy gear/skill and never see a Corselet. Someone could join in their first AV speed run and get lucky and get a Corselet. At least reward people for persistence with the same gear.

You mean like NQ and HQ which is an rpg staple across the board? It won't cause any sort of elitism if SE can successfully walk the fine line between having a good reward for people who do not want to run the dungeon for 3 months to get one drop and having a great reward for people that do. As long as there is only like a 10-15% difference in bonus stats on the actual armors themselves it will be enough to keep the more casual players satisfied while giving the hardcore players something to shoot for.

[Shougun]

You mean like NQ and HQ which is an rpg staple across the board? It won't cause any sort of elitism if SE can successfully walk the fine line between having a good reward for people who do not want to run the dungeon for 3 months to get one drop and having a great reward for people that do. As long as there is only like a 10-15% difference in bonus stats on the actual armors themselves it will be enough to keep the more casual players satisfied while giving the hardcore players something to shoot for.

Its not casual vs hardcore as much as it is getting that random on one of the 3 items or a group of friends that will let you get that item.

The lesser gear idea is bad. The only thing I can think of that Yoshi wants to do this is because maybe the cost is so low on tokens that in a run or two you can buy the lesser version (means each run you could get a piece). In which case I say cool but let us buy a more expensive token item that is the full version.

Lite Armor:
2 tokens

Full Armor:
10 tokens

[Req]

Its not casual vs hardcore as much as it is getting that random on one of the 3 items or a group of friends that will let you get that item.

The lesser gear idea is bad. The only thing I can think of that Yoshi wants to do this is because maybe the cost is so low on tokens that in a run or two you can buy the lesser version (means each run you could get a piece). In which case I say cool but let us buy a more expensive token item that is the full version.

Lite Armor:
2 tokens

Full Armor:
10 tokens

You guys seem to be forgetting the one important thing. If you use tokens to get the best gear from content then no one will do the content anymore. Look at what happened with Garuda. There is more to designing a game than just giving the players everything they want, especially an mmo where you have to account for the time it will take you to develop the next set of content. You have to design it in a way that rewards them but keeps them coming back for an extended period of time. If its all tokenized then that means that sooner rather than later you are going to end up with everyone having all the gear, getting bored, and not playing anymore which will kill the game.

The only way to balance it correctly in the case of tokenized gear is to either
A: Put an obscene lockout time on the amount of tokens you can get during a specific time frame so players won't be able to accumulate mass amounts in the initial burn sessions right after a piece of content is release

OR

B: Put the token cost high enough that it keeps the players spamming the dungeons constantly to work towards their goal of getting a piece of gear.

Do either of those sound optimal to you?

[Shougun]

You guys seem to be forgetting the one important thing. If you use tokens to get the best gear from content then no one will do the content anymore. Look at what happened with Garuda. There is more to designing a game than just giving the players everything they want, especially an mmo where you have to account for the time it will take you to develop the next set of content. You have to design it in a way that rewards them but keeps them coming back for an extended period of time. If its all tokenized then that means that sooner rather than later you are going to end up with everyone having all the gear, getting bored, and not playing anymore which will kill the game.

The only way to balance it correctly in the case of tokenized gear is to either
A: Put an obscene lockout time on the amount of tokens you can get during a specific time frame so players won't be able to accumulate mass amounts in the initial burn sessions right after a piece of content is release

OR

B: Put the token cost high enough that it keeps the players spamming the dungeons constantly to work towards their goal of getting a piece of gear.

Do either of those sound optimal to you?

I think you forget this ALWAYS happens in an mmo.

The second someone has it they will stop doing it. All my post suggested was to make two modes

cheap lite armor:
few tokens

full version:
many more tokens

So.. not sure what you think you are saying to me.

[Dzian]

Look at what happened with Garuda. There is more to designing a game than just giving the players everything they want,

The problem with garuda wasn't the content or the totems It was the mage burn exploit trick whatever you want to call it. people found a way to cheat it and ground the hell out of it day and night in a race to get weapons before it was fixed.

thus either people ground the hell out of it and got there weapons, or they simply gave up cos it was too difficult. has nothing really to do with the totems

[Kiara]

Let's not create further elitism by having two sets of stats for gear. Just do it like Garuda, same stats same item. Getting the gear right now often has nothing to do with skill and everything to do with luck. Someone could do 100 AV speed runs and have crazy gear/skill and never see a Corselet. Someone could join in their first AV speed run and get lucky and get a Corselet. At least reward people for persistence with the same gear.

Well said.

The Garuda Token System seems to be a very fair, balanced system that players generally are OK with:

Garuda
* Hope to get Lucky (Rare) Weapon Drop.
* Or, get 1 or 2 Vortex Totems per Win. (Normal Run, 1 Token; Speed Run, 2 Tokens (rewarding some more "skill")).
* You need 40 Tokens to turn in for 1 (100% Powered) Garuda Weapon.

What was wrong with this system?

I mean, why bother creating a 2nd Inferior Set and having you turn in your Tokens for that?

Why not set it at whatever number Yoshi P and Team feel is "fair" (for Garuda it was 40 Tokens (so 40 Normal Wins, or 20 Speed Run Wins)) for *1* Full Powered Item.

It just seems like a copout to create an Inferior Set.

Would everyone rather turn in, say, 10 Tokens for Inferior Equipment, or 40 Tokens for 100% Full Powered Equipment?

I'd rather they just set a higher cost and allows us unlucky players to work towards the rare drop either way (from a roll or Tokens).