Raid boss Drop question on translation

[Taika]

There's another negative side to content lockouts I didn't notice anyone mentioning yet: people who run content like this in their own static groups won't be able to help others. These people are usually also the most skillful ones in said content, those people who will join newbie groups just to assist and give some advice. I really wouldn't want to go back to XI style lockouts as they serve no purpose at all. They will also add an even higher pressure for succeeding as people don't want to waste one of their rare weekly runs for a group that might fail to complete the dungeon.

[Alegis]

For me it sounds good so far.

[Darkschnaider]

One thing I do not understand, they are all talking about this method is bad for endgame players but you are not thinking about the other players that maybe need only equip a class, they will have to do dungeons and as a player , which has equipped almost all classes, take the equipment
Really if you're only using one or two or three classes ... Why do you have to equip all? This system is also implemented for that reason, but rewards those players with tokens that will be worth to change per team to continue doing dungeons without taking the item to someone who really needs it.

For example if you get one token per time you do the dungeon and Darklight Heavy Armor worth 10 tokens in 10 attempts will have it and will avoid unnecessarily removing it to another, this is a much higher rate than the current you can do 50 or 100 or even see it fall.

[Shura]

One thing I do not understand, they are all talking about this method is bad for endgame players but you are not thinking about the other players that maybe need only equip a class, they will have to do dungeons and as a player , which has equipped almost all classes, take the equipment
Really if you're only using one or two or three classes ... Why do you have to equip all? This system is also implemented for that reason, but rewards those players with tokens that will be worth to change per team to continue doing dungeons without taking the item to someone who really needs it.

For example if you get one token per time you do the dungeon and Darklight Heavy Armor worth 10 tokens in 10 attempts will have it and will avoid unnecessarily removing it to another, this is a much higher rate than the current you can do 50 or 100 or even see it fall.

Its not bad for endgame players, its bad for hardcore players who have 10h a day to play. The hardcore will burn through the content pretty fast and have nothing to do since drops won't require a insane amount of spam/grinding to get. I personally am in favor of a more casual system, increase the challenge and reward players for completing the task.

The challenge of the dungeon/content should not be luck. Darkhold when it came out is a good example, it was challenging and you were somewhat guaranteed drops, not all drops but something in every chest. The better you were at it, the more chests u can unlock and increase your chances. It's a bit to easy now but those who played when it was first added, remember how challenging and interesting it was. MMOs that is centered around timesinks, luck and grind won't last long, Aion is a perfect example, everything from leveling to pve and pvp was a grind/timesink.

[Maxthunder]

Its not bad for endgame players, its bad for hardcore players who have 10h a day to play. The hardcore will burn through the content pretty fast and have nothing to do since drops won't require a insane amount of spam/grinding to get. I personally am in favor of a more casual system, increase the challenge and reward players for completing the task.

The challenge of the dungeon/content should not be luck. Darkhold when it came out is a good example, it was challenging and you were somewhat guaranteed drops, not all drops but something in every chest. The better you were at it, the more chests u can unlock and increase your chances. It's a bit to easy now but those who played when it was first added, remember how challenging and interesting it was. MMOs that is centered around timesinks, luck and grind won't last long, Aion is a perfect example, everything from leveling to pve and pvp was a grind/timesink.

Actually yes it is bad because they could have use a system from another game instead of tokens. A point based system, and it would show progress as well as drop rare gear/items and than you would have points that you earn by participating in the dungeon and said points could be used to buy the other things that have yet to drop in run/s. What this system dose is slows other players down while catering to another group of players. The issue with this system is that it shows the current dev team cant make enough content to keep players busy, so what they are doing is limiting you on how many items you can get either per week or per dungeon (has yet been confirmed if it is in fact 3 per week regardless of if it was a different dungeon).

[Dzian]

Do you seriously think they are gonna allow you to get the best gear in the game with tokens? Theres a high probablity that they wont and a slim to none chance that they will.

Where was it said that tokens would be used on lower teir gear and not the main drops?

That seems kind of retarted and kinda makes the whole token system seem pointless. I would assume the tokens would be used on the main drops for example darklight and other stuff. It wouldn't be an issue if the balance was right. for example using tokens to get your hdl isn't going to undervalue hdl if it takes you a month or more of token farming to get them. and even for the less than hardcore that month could easily become 2 or 3.

there's no reason not to use tokens on the main drops it's just a case of getting the pricing right. having a mini version of gears seems worthless

that'd be like trading totems in for a mini version of a garuda weapon absolutely worthless

[yukikaze_yanagi]

i remember saying the base endgame would drop token for a certain version of x gear, while its counterpart "heroic" mode would drops other tokens for an augmented version. Don't remember saying some gear would not obtainable with tokens

[Abriael]

I'm always amazed on how some people here seem to have never played other MMOs.

Limitations on how much gear you can acquire in a certain period of time from raids is a common rule in MMORPG. Most major MMOs lock you out of raid zones for up to one week once you cleared the raid. Having a chance to roll on loot three times a week and still do it for tokens is a luxury in comparison.

And in every MMORPG I have a good laugh at the supposed "hardcores" that would like to be able to raid 24/7 and complain their eyes out about the limitations, without realizing that if there were no limitations in place, they'd be out of stuff to do and bored to death in three weeks.

But of course you can't expect logic from people that base their life on raiding every single day on a MMO.

[Antipika]

I'm always amazed on how some people here seem to have never played other MMOs.

Limitations on how much gear you can acquire in a certain period of time from raids is a common rule in MMORPG. Most major MMOs lock you out of raid zones for up to one week once you cleared the raid. Having a chance to roll on loot three times a week and still do it for tokens is a luxury in comparison.

And in every MMORPG I have a good laugh at the supposed "hardcores" that would like to be able to raid 24/7 and complain their eyes out about the limitations, without realizing that if there were no limitations in place, they'd be out of stuff to do and bored to death in three weeks.

But of course you can't expect logic from people that base their life on raiding every single day on a MMO.

That's the main issue here, people never played anything else (beside XI) and don't understand that having such lockout is pretty much normal. Even if you are a hardcore player, if the raid difficulty is adjusted properly, raiding every single day won't make you progress that faster.

Why? Because you make encounters more and more gear dependant, gear that you obtain during the firsts bosses of a raid. So if boss #5 have a really tight DPS check and requires people wearing gear from the previous bosses, due to the weekly lockout, even the most hardcore players won't be able to obtain loots faster. (Let's say that one single pair of pants can drop every week on boss #3, then it will take 1 month, no matter what, to get 4 players with new pants).

Same for tokens dropping of bosses. Due to lockout, it's easy for game designers to determinate way in advance how fast players will get gear and progress through encounters they designed. That's one of the basic of a theme park MMO.

Hardcore players will still have an advantage by raiding more. They will get to practice more and learn/get used to mechanics faster. Meaning that as soon as gear isn't a barrier anymore, they will be able to defeat a boss, while casual players may still be progressing on first bosses.

I think a 1, 2 or 3 (max) hours lockout would be fine. A party could cycle through different dungeons, if so.

like:
1. you do CC;
2. you do AV;
3. you do other Dungeon;
4. you go back to CC.

Such content (CC/AV/DH/Primals) should have a daily lockout, with an improved drop rate off course. Those are way too small to be considered as a full raid (only 1 real boss), I think 1 day lockout would work fine. If you do everything that's already a good amount of time spent in-game. Then you can just do something else until the reset occurs.

[Reika]

That's the main issue here, people never played anything else (beside XI) and don't understand that having such lockout is pretty much normal. Even if you are a hardcore player, if the raid difficulty is adjusted properly, raiding every single day won't make you progress that faster.

Why? Because you make encounters more and more gear dependant, gear that you obtain during the firsts bosses of a raid. So if boss #5 have a really tight DPS check and requires people wearing gear from the previous bosses, due to the weekly lockout, even the most hardcore players won't be able to obtain loots faster. (Let's say that one single pair of pants can drop every week on boss #3, then it will take 1 month, no matter what, to get 4 players with new pants).

Same for tokens dropping of bosses. Due to lockout, it's easy for game designers to determinate way in advance how fast players will get gear and progress through encounters they designed. That's one of the basic of a theme park MMO.

Hardcore players will still have an advantage by raiding more. They will get to practice more and learn/get used to mechanics faster. Meaning that as soon as gear isn't a barrier anymore, they will be able to defeat a boss, while casual players may still be progressing on first bosses.



Such content (CC/AV/DH/Primals) should have a daily lockout, with an improved drop rate off course. Those are way too small to be considered as a full raid (only 1 real boss), I think 1 day lockout would work fine. If you do everything that's already a good amount of time spent in-game. Then you can just do something else until the reset occurs.

All the dungeons are getting changed, so all their mapouts will be different in ARR. They are being redesigned to take longer to do.

And the difference between a mmo like WoW with long lockouts and FFXI/XIV is that one has long lockouts but bosses WILL drop rare stuff, no matter if its a repeat drop, while in ffxiv right now it is only 15m lockout but abysmal drop rates that could leave you with nothing for days.

I would chose long lockout and guaranteed drop over abysmal drop and spamming content anyday. There will be more content to do, thus better things to do with ones time than run one dungeon all day.

I made the same suggestion to that TERA mmo that they bump up the lockout but increase the drop rates a long time ago, but they suck. K-mmo are the same way with short lockouts but stupidly low dropouts. Do not want.

It's not really that all items are going to be guaranteed drop anyways. There is still RNG involved as to what will be one of the drops, so you could end up seeing the same 2-3 things for multiple runs. There might be Some things may have a lower chance to show up in the loot, but at least there will always be something, and something is better than nothing.