Raid boss Drop question on translation

[Matsume]

2:- Will tokens only be rewarded only for those who lose a lot on a drop? or will they be given to everyone who clears the content? If tokens are only awarded on losing a lot then imagine if a boss drops 6 items A B C D E and F. If the only item I want or need is item C for example and the boss never drops C then I won't lot. Does that then mean that once again we have a system where we could run content 100 times with nothing. If C never drops I'll never lot and thus I'll never earn any tokens or once again make no progress towards my goal of obtaining C. In this system the only way I could progress towards C for example would be to lot on items I don't want A B D E and F and hope I lose in order to earn a token. Thus it seems better to award tokens to everyone who clears content regardless of if they lot or not. In such a fashion it would not matter if item C never drops as sure it would suck but at least I would still be making a little progress towards it each time. This would also be true if I had already obtained ABDEF and only needed C to finish my set.
How then would I make progress without going back to the current system of spam it and pray to the RNG gods.

First of all I'd like to thank Bayohne for shedding some light on this issue.

Now to the meat of the matter, it seems that Bayohne has confirmed my suspicion that only players who lose lots will be rewarded with tokens which lead me to the same conclusion as Dzian quoted above.

If you other adventurers are anything like me, then you have likely run AV and CC so much in hopes of DL gear that you have already picked up most if not all of the dungeon dropped rares that you desire other than the elusive Darklight.

Considering the fact that there are no plans to change the droprate of darklight gear, it is probable that darklight will be as rare after ARR than before ARR. So, if you only need darklight and can only lot 3-4 times per week, then presumably you will save your lots til darklight drops. But, what are the odds that you will see a piece of darklight drop if you don't spam said dungeon?

The most likely scenario is that darklight will be as hard to get then as it is now and that most player's only option will be to lot on items they don't want in hopes of losing that lot so as to be rewarded with a token. Which leads to two potential outcomes: players roll on items they don't want and win lot, thus wasting a lot and denying someone else of that item that they may or may not have needed; and: players use all of their lots within the first run in hopes of losing all of them and getting a maximum of tokens for a minimum of time spent then moving on to the next dungeon - rinse repeat. I can see this happening most often in PUGs...

Alternatively, two other possible scenarios that are more likely to happen in statics: hardcore linkshell's will continue to spam content in hopes of getting darklight gear and nothing less, tokens will only be a stepping stone towards the real deal and they will spend as much time trying to get darklight after launch as they did before; and: static parties will organize it such that everyone in the party uses all of their lots on the same 3 items in one same run, thus maximizing the number of tokens distributed per item and minimizing the odds that one person never gets a token, they will use all of their lots in one run and move on to the next dungeon uncaring for the real darklight.

On the bright side! the lotting system should, in theory, prevent players from ninja looting and rolling on an item for the sake of another party member. Should an item drop to the loot list of someone planing on ninja looting said item any player with a lot can roll and deny said ninja the ability to loot said item. It does, in a certain sense, even the looting field.

Edit: One last thing, distributing a token to each member regardless of wether they lot or not would only further encourage spamming content until enough tokens have been obtained to buy full set of lesser darklight gear. Darklight drops are so dismal and disheartening that I could care less for the real darklight if it only takes a few weeks of spamming to get my full share of tokens instead of a few months for full darklight.

[syntaxlies]

First of all I'd like to thank Bayohne for shedding some light on this issue.

Now to the meat of the matter, it seems that Bayohne has confirmed my suspicion that only players who lose lots will be rewarded with tokens which lead me to the same conclusion as Dzian quoted above.

If you other adventurers are anything like me, then you have likely run AV and CC so much in hopes of DL gear that you have already picked up most if not all of the dungeon dropped rares that you desire other than the elusive Darklight.

Considering the fact that there are no plans to change the droprate of darklight gear, it is probable that darklight will be as rare after ARR than before ARR. So, if you only need darklight and can only lot 3-4 times per week, then presumably you will save your lots til darklight drops. But, what are the odds that you will see a piece of darklight drop if you don't spam said dungeon?

The most likely scenario is that darklight will be as hard to get then as it is now and that most player's only option will be to lot on items they don't want in hopes of losing that lot so as to be rewarded with a token. Which leads to two potential outcomes: players roll on items they don't want and win lot, thus wasting a lot and denying someone else of that item that they may or may not have needed; and: players use all of their lots within the first run in hopes of losing all of them and getting a maximum of tokens for a minimum of time spent then moving on to the next dungeon - rinse repeat. I can see this happening most often in PUGs...

Alternatively, two other possible scenarios that are more likely to happen in statics: hardcore linkshell's will continue to spam content in hopes of getting darklight gear and nothing less, tokens will only be a stepping stone towards the real deal and they will spend as much time trying to get darklight after launch as they did before; and: static parties will organize it such that everyone in the party uses all of their lots on the same 3 items in one same run, thus maximizing the number of tokens distributed per item and minimizing the odds that one person never gets a token, they will use all of their lots in one run and move on to the next dungeon uncaring for the real darklight.

On the bright side! the lotting system should, in theory, prevent players from ninja looting and rolling on an item for the sake of another party member. Should an item drop to the loot list of someone planing on ninja looting said item any player with a lot can roll and deny said ninja the ability to loot said item. It does, in a certain sense, even the looting field.

i was under the impression that gear exchanged for tokens would be of lesser quality then the "rare" drops, if this is the case then no one will really want tokens. If rare items are guaranteed to drop 2-3 drops per run then theres no reason why people would lot against each other and waste their lotting, unless:

SE considers the "greens" as rare, or
the content has a 24 hour lock out timer or something like it.

[Matsume]

i was under the impression that gear exchanged for tokens would be of lesser quality then the "rare" drops, if this is the case then no one will really want tokens. If rare items are guaranteed to drop 2-3 drops per run then theres no reason why people would lot against each other and waste their lotting, unless:

SE considers the "greens" as rare, or
the content has a 24 hour lock out timer or something like it.

Yes, you are right on both counts.

SE does indeed consider green items as "rares". Thormoen's Subligar <You can have this> "Rare".

The token rewarded gear is supposed to be of lesser quality than the dungeon dropped gear.

But, you are entirely wrong if you think no one will want the token rewarded gear if it is of lesser quality than darklight. It just might be that the difference between the two is equivalent to the differene between HQ and NQ gear. In which case they may as well be the same. Or there could be a much greater difference, in half the stats for example but that would be a bit extreme.

In either case the fact of the matter is that Darklight will be as hard to get after ARR than it is now, according to statements about the droprate not being changed. Currently, there are a whole hell of a lot of players, myself and most of the players in all of my linkshells included, who don't give a rats tail about spamming CC/AV speed runs for darklight gear because the drop rate is so dismal. These are the people that will opt for what may as well be called Dimlight gear (the token rewarded versions).

However, if the gear rewarded with tokens is so undesirable, as you indicate, to the point that no one will want it - then why implement the tokens in the first place? Either the token bought dimlight will be close enough to the real darklight that people will settle for second to best or it will be useless to the point where nothing will change from it's current state because the only gear worth getting (darklight) drops once in a blue moon.

[syntaxlies]

Yes, you are right on both counts.

SE does indeed consider green items as "rares". Thormoen's Subligar <You can have this> "Rare".

The token rewarded gear is supposed to be of lesser quality than the dungeon dropped gear.

But, you are entirely wrong if you think no one will want the token rewarded gear if it is of lesser quality than darklight. It just might be that the difference between the two is equivalent to the differene between HQ and NQ gear. In which case they may as well be the same. Or there could be a much greater difference, in half the stats for example but that would be a bit extreme.

In either case the fact of the matter is that Darklight will be as hard to get after ARR than it is now, according to statements about the droprate not being changed. Currently, there are a whole hell of a lot of players, myself and most of the players in all of my linkshells included, who don't give a rats tail about spamming CC/AV speed runs for darklight gear because the drop rate is so dismal. These are the people that will opt for what may as well be called Dimlight gear (the token rewarded versions).

However, if the gear rewarded with tokens is so undesirable, as you indicate, to the point that no one will want it - then why implement the tokens in the first place? Either the token bought dimlight will be close enough to the real darklight that people will settle for second to best or it will be useless to the point where nothing will change from it's current state because the only gear worth getting (darklight) drops once in a blue moon.

i only meant no one will want the lesser quality gear if only blue is considered rare. If darklight and future gear have the same droprate as now then many will opt for the token gear, esp since we will have vanity slots (incase the gear is terrabad)

[Matsume]

i only meant no one will want the lesser quality gear if only blue is considered rare. If darklight and future gear have the same droprate as now then many will opt for the token gear, esp since we will have vanity slots (incase the gear is terrabad)

I couldn't agree more. Which is why in a previous post I raised my concern over the definiton of "Rare Gear".

If greens are indeed considered "rare" and in the same loot pool as darklight with an unchanged droprate, then it is safe to assume darklight will end up being just as hard to come by after ARR as before. In which case I see token bought Dimlight as the norm and Darklightt for the hardcore players.

If, on the other hand, "Rares" are defined as blue gear and each boss drops "2-3 rares per run", then I can see a server full of darklight wearing adventurers within a month of ARR's launch. Who would give a rat's tail about lotting on darklight if you were rewarded 2-3 pieces per run? You could just spam the dungeon beyond lot timers and fill up on the epic...

I can only hope that the truth lies somewhere in between both extremes...

[Shougun]

I couldn't agree more. Which is why in a previous post I raised my concern over the definiton of "Rare Gear".

If greens are indeed considered "rare" and in the same loot pool as darklight with an unchanged droprate, then it is safe to assume darklight will end up being just as hard to come by after ARR as before. In which case I see token bought Dimlight as the norm and Darklightt for the hardcore players.

If, on the other hand, "Rares" are defined as blue gear and each boss drops "2-3 rares per run", then I can see a server full of darklight wearing adventurers within a month of ARR's launch. Who would give a rat's tail about lotting on darklight if you were rewarded 2-3 pieces per run? You could just spam the dungeon beyond lot timers and fill up on the epic...

I can only hope that the truth lies somewhere in between both extremes...

Assuming that everyone in the party doesnt have darklight, and a normal distribution of items (repeats and doubles of some items sometimes) - I would think it would still take longer then a month.

Plus or minus depending on this one strategy I'm concerned about:

If you are a static you can decide who gets what and not roll against each other. So does that mean you can get 3 items every week from a dungeon (each person)?

This system provides an unique effectiveness to statics that would be impossible in disorganized LS/FC and PUGs. . Hope they consider something to make it fair across the board.

[Chinook]

I'm adding my "vote" for the token items to be the same as drops, regulated by this lot thing and the difficulty you're doing the dungeon at.

[syntaxlies]

another thing im confused about is it says after you cant lot anymore you can choose to do the other content. Does this mean that its 2-3 lots per instance?

[elreed]

First of all I'd like to thank Bayohne for shedding some light on this issue.

Now to the meat of the matter, it seems that Bayohne has confirmed my suspicion that only players who lose lots will be rewarded with tokens which lead me to the same conclusion as Dzian quoted above.

If you other adventurers are anything like me, then you have likely run AV and CC so much in hopes of DL gear that you have already picked up most if not all of the dungeon dropped rares that you desire other than the elusive Darklight.

Considering the fact that there are no plans to change the droprate of darklight gear, it is probable that darklight will be as rare after ARR than before ARR. So, if you only need darklight and can only lot 3-4 times per week, then presumably you will save your lots til darklight drops. But, what are the odds that you will see a piece of darklight drop if you don't spam said dungeon?

The most likely scenario is that darklight will be as hard to get then as it is now and that most player's only option will be to lot on items they don't want in hopes of losing that lot so as to be rewarded with a token. Which leads to two potential outcomes: players roll on items they don't want and win lot, thus wasting a lot and denying someone else of that item that they may or may not have needed; and: players use all of their lots within the first run in hopes of losing all of them and getting a maximum of tokens for a minimum of time spent then moving on to the next dungeon - rinse repeat. I can see this happening most often in PUGs...

Alternatively, two other possible scenarios that are more likely to happen in statics: hardcore linkshell's will continue to spam content in hopes of getting darklight gear and nothing less, tokens will only be a stepping stone towards the real deal and they will spend as much time trying to get darklight after launch as they did before; and: static parties will organize it such that everyone in the party uses all of their lots on the same 3 items in one same run, thus maximizing the number of tokens distributed per item and minimizing the odds that one person never gets a token, they will use all of their lots in one run and move on to the next dungeon uncaring for the real darklight.

On the bright side! the lotting system should, in theory, prevent players from ninja looting and rolling on an item for the sake of another party member. Should an item drop to the loot list of someone planing on ninja looting said item any player with a lot can roll and deny said ninja the ability to loot said item. It does, in a certain sense, even the looting field.

Edit: One last thing, distributing a token to each member regardless of wether they lot or not would only further encourage spamming content until enough tokens have been obtained to buy full set of lesser darklight gear. Darklight drops are so dismal and disheartening that I could care less for the real darklight if it only takes a few weeks of spamming to get my full share of tokens instead of a few months for full darklight.

I would prefer they gave company seals after you complete a dungeon/primal or whatever content they planned instead of tokens, with this people can get company gear and can buy exclusive items from the company like the exp manuals for crafters and gatherers, maybe they can add an item sold in headquarters that pops an NM with very rare items that requires a lot of seals, this to have a seal sink.

I think everyone can be happy with that, getting the pop item will take time so even if you spam content you wont have that many chances to do it and at the end people will do a lot of content looking for these NM's and even casual players can fight those rare NM's in the long run.

[Orophin]

another thing im confused about is it says after you cant lot anymore you can choose to do the other content. Does this mean that its 2-3 lots per instance?

That's what it sounds like.

All I know is there's going to be less incentive for me to keep running a dungeon after I've run out of my alloted rolls on gear if token gear is weaker than the actual drops. There's enough people in my linkshell that multiple full parties can be put together so that we aren't only subbing in a few people to dungeon spam for them.

My propositions are either:

1. Allow the purchase of the same gear that drops from dungeons for what the dev team considers an ample amount of tokens.

2. Create loot that is unique to being purchased with tokens but not "underpowered". Make it to where said loot has stats that are on the same iLvl as something that drops from a dungeon, but gives different stats. (i.e. a ring with INT and MAB may drop from dungeon, whereas a ring with INT and MACC can be purchased with tokens) This gives some diversity in gear builds.