Raid boss Drop question on translation

[Dzian]

Sure. Here you go:
I also remember Rein translating something that basically said that some time ago.

Can't see a link. it that dev confirmed or just translated? it's because of all the different translations that there's confusion i believe some say lesser some don't. sorry if i'm a pain

[AntonyB]

Can't see a link. it that dev confirmed or just translated? it's because of all the different translations that there's confusion i believe some say lesser some don't. sorry if i'm a pain

they are translated from interviews.

Here is Reins original translate: Link

＞・現行では当初コンテンツにトークン制を取り入れたいと考えていた。
＞例えば1回クリアで必ずパーティに2～3個の報酬があってみんなで分配する形。
＞何もエられなかった人にはトークンが渡されてコツコツ参加すれば本命のアイテムより性能が少し落ちる品物が手に入るようにする構想
- Wanted to put in token system into current version contents.
- For example with 1 clear have 2-3 rewards (報酬 Houshuu, doesn't say トークンhere like above...orz sorry） which can be distributed with everyone
- Idea was for those that didn't get anything have a token and once you participate enough you get an item with lower stats than the original.

[Kiara]

2:- Will tokens only be rewarded only for those who lose a lot on a drop? or will they be given to everyone who clears the content? If tokens are only awarded on losing a lot then imagine if a boss drops 6 items A B C D E and F. If the only item I want or need is item C for example and the boss never drops C then I won't lot. Does that then mean that once again we have a system where we could run content 100 times with nothing. If C never drops I'll never lot and thus I'll never earn any tokens or once again make no progress towards my goal of obtaining C. In this system the only way I could progress towards C for example would be to lot on items I don't want A B D E and F and hope I lose in order to earn a token. Thus it seems better to award tokens to everyone who clears content regardless of if they lot or not. In such a fashion it would not matter if item C never drops as sure it would suck but at least I would still be making a little progress towards it each time. This would also be true if I had already obtained ABDEF and only needed C to finish my set. How then would I make progress without going back to the current system of spam it and pray to the RNG gods.

3:- What happens to items if no one uses there lots. If 4 people want Item A 2 people want Item B and 2 want Item C. then what happens if Items D E and F drop? and everyone in the party is saving there lot for the items they want and thus they do not roll? Will Items D E F be completely lost or randomly distributed to party members as they exit. Again comes a situation where there's no progress because items DEF may drop multiple times leaving players still no closer to items A B and C which they actually want. and thus once again left with spam content and pray to the RNG gods. This is another reason why tokens should be given to everyone that clears content not just those that lose a lot.

It's not about the loot itself. It's about giving players the means to make and feel progress towards what they want to achieve. This is why people have been asking for token systems for the last 2 years. This is why tokens should be tradable for the main drops. Players do content for the main rewards. And it is those rewards they should feel they are at least making progress on. Even if drops are guaranteed they're not necessarily the right ones.

Great questions and thoughts Dzian!

Definitely agree.

As you said, if you were hoping to get, say, "Item C" from a Dungeon, but only Item A, B, D ever drop in your runs, so you *don't* Lot, then what happens?

Would you never get a Token because you never lotted, and thus, you ran a dungeon constantly and got nothing?

And for Question 3, yah, it'd be really sad to see items that no one lots on (that's "Rare") just be thrown away because people didn't want to spend their 3 or 4 Lots on that (and were saving it up)?

And, I, too, would hope that they'll allow us to trade in our Tokens for the Real, 100% Full Powered Version of the Rare Items in question, not just a Weak Version.

[Matsume]

2:- Will tokens only be rewarded only for those who lose a lot on a drop? or will they be given to everyone who clears the content? If tokens are only awarded on losing a lot then imagine if a boss drops 6 items A B C D E and F. If the only item I want or need is item C for example and the boss never drops C then I won't lot. Does that then mean that once again we have a system where we could run content 100 times with nothing. If C never drops I'll never lot and thus I'll never earn any tokens or once again make no progress towards my goal of obtaining C. In this system the only way I could progress towards C for example would be to lot on items I don't want A B D E and F and hope I lose in order to earn a token. Thus it seems better to award tokens to everyone who clears content regardless of if they lot or not. In such a fashion it would not matter if item C never drops as sure it would suck but at least I would still be making a little progress towards it each time. This would also be true if I had already obtained ABDEF and only needed C to finish my set.
How then would I make progress without going back to the current system of spam it and pray to the RNG gods.

First of all I'd like to thank Bayohne for shedding some light on this issue.

Now to the meat of the matter, it seems that Bayohne has confirmed my suspicion that only players who lose lots will be rewarded with tokens which lead me to the same conclusion as Dzian quoted above.

If you other adventurers are anything like me, then you have likely run AV and CC so much in hopes of DL gear that you have already picked up most if not all of the dungeon dropped rares that you desire other than the elusive Darklight.

Considering the fact that there are no plans to change the droprate of darklight gear, it is probable that darklight will be as rare after ARR than before ARR. So, if you only need darklight and can only lot 3-4 times per week, then presumably you will save your lots til darklight drops. But, what are the odds that you will see a piece of darklight drop if you don't spam said dungeon?

The most likely scenario is that darklight will be as hard to get then as it is now and that most player's only option will be to lot on items they don't want in hopes of losing that lot so as to be rewarded with a token. Which leads to two potential outcomes: players roll on items they don't want and win lot, thus wasting a lot and denying someone else of that item that they may or may not have needed; and: players use all of their lots within the first run in hopes of losing all of them and getting a maximum of tokens for a minimum of time spent then moving on to the next dungeon - rinse repeat. I can see this happening most often in PUGs...

Alternatively, two other possible scenarios that are more likely to happen in statics: hardcore linkshell's will continue to spam content in hopes of getting darklight gear and nothing less, tokens will only be a stepping stone towards the real deal and they will spend as much time trying to get darklight after launch as they did before; and: static parties will organize it such that everyone in the party uses all of their lots on the same 3 items in one same run, thus maximizing the number of tokens distributed per item and minimizing the odds that one person never gets a token, they will use all of their lots in one run and move on to the next dungeon uncaring for the real darklight.

On the bright side! the lotting system should, in theory, prevent players from ninja looting and rolling on an item for the sake of another party member. Should an item drop to the loot list of someone planing on ninja looting said item any player with a lot can roll and deny said ninja the ability to loot said item. It does, in a certain sense, even the looting field.

Edit: One last thing, distributing a token to each member regardless of wether they lot or not would only further encourage spamming content until enough tokens have been obtained to buy full set of lesser darklight gear. Darklight drops are so dismal and disheartening that I could care less for the real darklight if it only takes a few weeks of spamming to get my full share of tokens instead of a few months for full darklight.

[syntaxlies]

First of all I'd like to thank Bayohne for shedding some light on this issue.

Now to the meat of the matter, it seems that Bayohne has confirmed my suspicion that only players who lose lots will be rewarded with tokens which lead me to the same conclusion as Dzian quoted above.

If you other adventurers are anything like me, then you have likely run AV and CC so much in hopes of DL gear that you have already picked up most if not all of the dungeon dropped rares that you desire other than the elusive Darklight.

Considering the fact that there are no plans to change the droprate of darklight gear, it is probable that darklight will be as rare after ARR than before ARR. So, if you only need darklight and can only lot 3-4 times per week, then presumably you will save your lots til darklight drops. But, what are the odds that you will see a piece of darklight drop if you don't spam said dungeon?

The most likely scenario is that darklight will be as hard to get then as it is now and that most player's only option will be to lot on items they don't want in hopes of losing that lot so as to be rewarded with a token. Which leads to two potential outcomes: players roll on items they don't want and win lot, thus wasting a lot and denying someone else of that item that they may or may not have needed; and: players use all of their lots within the first run in hopes of losing all of them and getting a maximum of tokens for a minimum of time spent then moving on to the next dungeon - rinse repeat. I can see this happening most often in PUGs...

Alternatively, two other possible scenarios that are more likely to happen in statics: hardcore linkshell's will continue to spam content in hopes of getting darklight gear and nothing less, tokens will only be a stepping stone towards the real deal and they will spend as much time trying to get darklight after launch as they did before; and: static parties will organize it such that everyone in the party uses all of their lots on the same 3 items in one same run, thus maximizing the number of tokens distributed per item and minimizing the odds that one person never gets a token, they will use all of their lots in one run and move on to the next dungeon uncaring for the real darklight.

On the bright side! the lotting system should, in theory, prevent players from ninja looting and rolling on an item for the sake of another party member. Should an item drop to the loot list of someone planing on ninja looting said item any player with a lot can roll and deny said ninja the ability to loot said item. It does, in a certain sense, even the looting field.

i was under the impression that gear exchanged for tokens would be of lesser quality then the "rare" drops, if this is the case then no one will really want tokens. If rare items are guaranteed to drop 2-3 drops per run then theres no reason why people would lot against each other and waste their lotting, unless:

SE considers the "greens" as rare, or
the content has a 24 hour lock out timer or something like it.

[Matsume]

i was under the impression that gear exchanged for tokens would be of lesser quality then the "rare" drops, if this is the case then no one will really want tokens. If rare items are guaranteed to drop 2-3 drops per run then theres no reason why people would lot against each other and waste their lotting, unless:

SE considers the "greens" as rare, or
the content has a 24 hour lock out timer or something like it.

Yes, you are right on both counts.

SE does indeed consider green items as "rares". Thormoen's Subligar <You can have this> "Rare".

The token rewarded gear is supposed to be of lesser quality than the dungeon dropped gear.

But, you are entirely wrong if you think no one will want the token rewarded gear if it is of lesser quality than darklight. It just might be that the difference between the two is equivalent to the differene between HQ and NQ gear. In which case they may as well be the same. Or there could be a much greater difference, in half the stats for example but that would be a bit extreme.

In either case the fact of the matter is that Darklight will be as hard to get after ARR than it is now, according to statements about the droprate not being changed. Currently, there are a whole hell of a lot of players, myself and most of the players in all of my linkshells included, who don't give a rats tail about spamming CC/AV speed runs for darklight gear because the drop rate is so dismal. These are the people that will opt for what may as well be called Dimlight gear (the token rewarded versions).

However, if the gear rewarded with tokens is so undesirable, as you indicate, to the point that no one will want it - then why implement the tokens in the first place? Either the token bought dimlight will be close enough to the real darklight that people will settle for second to best or it will be useless to the point where nothing will change from it's current state because the only gear worth getting (darklight) drops once in a blue moon.

[elreed]

First of all I'd like to thank Bayohne for shedding some light on this issue.

Now to the meat of the matter, it seems that Bayohne has confirmed my suspicion that only players who lose lots will be rewarded with tokens which lead me to the same conclusion as Dzian quoted above.

If you other adventurers are anything like me, then you have likely run AV and CC so much in hopes of DL gear that you have already picked up most if not all of the dungeon dropped rares that you desire other than the elusive Darklight.

Considering the fact that there are no plans to change the droprate of darklight gear, it is probable that darklight will be as rare after ARR than before ARR. So, if you only need darklight and can only lot 3-4 times per week, then presumably you will save your lots til darklight drops. But, what are the odds that you will see a piece of darklight drop if you don't spam said dungeon?

The most likely scenario is that darklight will be as hard to get then as it is now and that most player's only option will be to lot on items they don't want in hopes of losing that lot so as to be rewarded with a token. Which leads to two potential outcomes: players roll on items they don't want and win lot, thus wasting a lot and denying someone else of that item that they may or may not have needed; and: players use all of their lots within the first run in hopes of losing all of them and getting a maximum of tokens for a minimum of time spent then moving on to the next dungeon - rinse repeat. I can see this happening most often in PUGs...

Alternatively, two other possible scenarios that are more likely to happen in statics: hardcore linkshell's will continue to spam content in hopes of getting darklight gear and nothing less, tokens will only be a stepping stone towards the real deal and they will spend as much time trying to get darklight after launch as they did before; and: static parties will organize it such that everyone in the party uses all of their lots on the same 3 items in one same run, thus maximizing the number of tokens distributed per item and minimizing the odds that one person never gets a token, they will use all of their lots in one run and move on to the next dungeon uncaring for the real darklight.

On the bright side! the lotting system should, in theory, prevent players from ninja looting and rolling on an item for the sake of another party member. Should an item drop to the loot list of someone planing on ninja looting said item any player with a lot can roll and deny said ninja the ability to loot said item. It does, in a certain sense, even the looting field.

Edit: One last thing, distributing a token to each member regardless of wether they lot or not would only further encourage spamming content until enough tokens have been obtained to buy full set of lesser darklight gear. Darklight drops are so dismal and disheartening that I could care less for the real darklight if it only takes a few weeks of spamming to get my full share of tokens instead of a few months for full darklight.

I would prefer they gave company seals after you complete a dungeon/primal or whatever content they planned instead of tokens, with this people can get company gear and can buy exclusive items from the company like the exp manuals for crafters and gatherers, maybe they can add an item sold in headquarters that pops an NM with very rare items that requires a lot of seals, this to have a seal sink.

I think everyone can be happy with that, getting the pop item will take time so even if you spam content you wont have that many chances to do it and at the end people will do a lot of content looking for these NM's and even casual players can fight those rare NM's in the long run.

[Orophin]

another thing im confused about is it says after you cant lot anymore you can choose to do the other content. Does this mean that its 2-3 lots per instance?

That's what it sounds like.

All I know is there's going to be less incentive for me to keep running a dungeon after I've run out of my alloted rolls on gear if token gear is weaker than the actual drops. There's enough people in my linkshell that multiple full parties can be put together so that we aren't only subbing in a few people to dungeon spam for them.

My propositions are either:

1. Allow the purchase of the same gear that drops from dungeons for what the dev team considers an ample amount of tokens.

2. Create loot that is unique to being purchased with tokens but not "underpowered". Make it to where said loot has stats that are on the same iLvl as something that drops from a dungeon, but gives different stats. (i.e. a ring with INT and MAB may drop from dungeon, whereas a ring with INT and MACC can be purchased with tokens) This gives some diversity in gear builds.

[Kiara]

Greetings,

I wanted to post a clearer version of the specific segment in question here.

4Gamer: What restrictions are there on acquiring rewards from bosses?

Yoshida: In a Realm Reborn, when players defeat bosses, rare items are guaranteed to drop.

For example, if a single party of adventurers defeats a boss, that party will receive two to three rare items. Players can choose to cast lots to win these rare items; however, players will only be able to cast lots three or four times a week, depending on the content. We've added reset timers so players can track this.

Players that cast lots but don't win will instead receive tokens, which can be collected and exchanged for items. So you are guaranteed to receive something regardless of the result.

4Gamer: Two to three players will definitely receive rare items. The other players will receive rewards as well?

Yoshida: For rare items, it's possible that an unlucky player may not win despite casting lots several times. In this case, the player can challenge one of the other contents while waiting for the timer to reset. I must say it's a little difficult to explain how it works without actually having you play the game.


Like Yoshida says in the interview, it will be easier to understand the system once you have a chance to try it out. Keep in mind that details are still being discussed and finalized and what is presented here is just a portion of it. As soon as we have more information to share you guys will be the first to hear it!

Hi Bayohne (and Yoshida-san),

Thanks for the clarification and update.

We'll probably know a lot more when you finally have the official Lodestone Update on 2.0's Loot / Reward System, but I wanted to bring up a concern that some have mentioned, and suggestions to alleviate it:

* Concern *

• By limiting Players to be able to only cast lots on "Rare Items" 3 or 4 times per week, it could limit their motivation to want to go back and try that content (Raid / Dungeon / Boss Fight) when they finished their 3 or 4 tries. After all, why would they want to go back to "New Dungeon A" in 2.0, if they were out of their 3 or 4 lot attempts?

One solution would be something Square actually implemented in their previous online RPG, and something we saw a little bit of early on with the World NMs (Uraeus, Dodore, etc.):

* Solution *

• Please consider adding additional *Categories* of Items that can drop from Raids / NMs that *don't* count towards the 3 or 4 Lot Chances for "Rare Items." Examples include

• Rare Materials: So besides "Rare Items" (like Darklight), have Endgame Content drop Rare Materials that are part of a Synth, e.g., Astral Lumber, or Damascus Ingots, etc.

• Unique / Untradeable Special Items: Like the "Cursed Gear" idea and getting "Abjurations" or "Attestations of Might / Justice" etc., you could have Raids drop Special Items that you need to augment and alter gear, which would be another incentive for players to try the dungeon again.

• Primal Totems: Currently getting Inferno Tapers (for Ifrit) or Unmarked Keystones (for Moogle) are gotten off many generic mobs. Perhaps for Titan or Leviathan or Shiva, etc., you could get the Primal Tapers you need by doing certain Dungeons (completing them) (but needing a fewer amount of them), or that you'd get a Packet of 10 of them (like getting 10 Unmarked Keystones when you kill one of the NMs near Moogle) from a Dungeon.

• "One Use" Key Items to Spawn OTHER Bosses / Dungeons: Just like getting the Seal of Byakko, Seal of Suzaku, etc. in Final Fantasy XI, you could get a special Key Item for clearing a Boss Encounter / Dungeon / NM, that you'd need to gain access to a different Boss Fight / Dungeon.

• "Other" "Good" Dungeon Drops that Don't Count as "Rare": There are some good pieces of equipment in the current dungeons that aren't as good as Darklight (or as rare), but they're nice pieces to have. Yoshida-san should keep these as other incentives for players to go through dungeons, and these should *not* count towards your 3 or 4 Times to Lot per week. Stuff like:
  • Pince-Nez
  • Explorer's Bandanna
  • Mages Halfgloves
  • Veteran's Field Belt
  • Stonewall Earrings

Ultimately, it feels like the current Dungeons and Raids gave away too many items in completed form, wasting the opportunity to incentivize players and make new content last longer.

If in 2.0 / ARR, you had other Categories of Items that could drop from Raids that *don't* count towards your 3 or 4 Times per Week to Lot, I think that would solve the problem some of us are worried about:

That once you use up your 3 or 4 tries per week, you'd never want to go back into that Dungeon / Fight (unless you were helping your LS or friend).

By adding stuff like Rare Materials (like Uraeus Skin, or rare Astral Lumber, Ingot, etc.) that can only be gotten from that Raid / NM / Fight, and if that didn't count towards your 3 or 4 lots, then I could see this new system not being a problem.

People would still want to go back to that "New Dungeon A" even if they used up their chances on "Darklight" (Rare Gear), to try for other Items (like those listed above - Rare Materials, Special Augmenting Key Items, Rare Totems, etc.).

So you could have completed Rare / Valuable Items, and have items that require Rare Materials, involving Crafters and Disciples of War/Magic in 2.0, and bringing back incentive to go back through a New Dungeon, even if you've used up your 3 or 4 Lots per Week (to try for other stuff).

Thanks!

[syntaxlies]

Hi Bayohne (and Yoshida-san),

Thanks for the clarification and update.

We'll probably know a lot more when you finally have the official Lodestone Update on 2.0's Loot / Reward System, but I wanted to bring up a concern that some have mentioned, and suggestions to alleviate it:

* Concern *

• By limiting Players to be able to only cast lots on "Rare Items" 3 or 4 times per week, it could limit their motivation to want to go back and try that content (Raid / Dungeon / Boss Fight) when they finished their 3 or 4 tries. After all, why would they want to go back to "New Dungeon A" in 2.0, if they were out of their 3 or 4 lot attempts?

One solution would be something Square actually implemented in their previous online RPG, and something we saw a little bit of early on with the World NMs (Uraeus, Dodore, etc.):

* Solution *

• Please consider adding additional *Categories* of Items that can drop from Raids / NMs that *don't* count towards the 3 or 4 Lot Chances for "Rare Items." Examples include

• Rare Materials: So besides "Rare Items" (like Darklight), have Endgame Content drop Rare Materials that are part of a Synth, e.g., Astral Lumber, or Damascus Ingots, etc.

• Unique / Untradeable Special Items: Like the "Cursed Gear" idea and getting "Abjurations" or "Attestations of Might / Justice" etc., you could have Raids drop Special Items that you need to augment and alter gear, which would be another incentive for players to try the dungeon again.

• Primal Totems: Currently getting Inferno Tapers (for Ifrit) or Unmarked Keystones (for Moogle) are gotten off many generic mobs. Perhaps for Titan or Leviathan or Shiva, etc., you could get the Primal Tapers you need by doing certain Dungeons (completing them) (but needing a fewer amount of them), or that you'd get a Packet of 10 of them (like getting 10 Unmarked Keystones when you kill one of the NMs near Moogle) from a Dungeon.

• "One Use" Key Items to Spawn OTHER Bosses / Dungeons: Just like getting the Seal of Byakko, Seal of Suzaku, etc. in Final Fantasy XI, you could get a special Key Item for clearing a Boss Encounter / Dungeon / NM, that you'd need to gain access to a different Boss Fight / Dungeon.

• "Other" "Good" Dungeon Drops that Don't Count as "Rare": There are some good pieces of equipment in the current dungeons that aren't as good as Darklight (or as rare), but they're nice pieces to have. Yoshida-san should keep these as other incentives for players to go through dungeons, and these should *not* count towards your 3 or 4 Times to Lot per week. Stuff like:
  • Pince-Nez
  • Explorer's Bandanna
  • Mages Halfgloves
  • Veteran's Field Belt
  • Stonewall Earrings

Ultimately, it feels like the current Dungeons and Raids gave away too many items in completed form, wasting the opportunity to incentivize players and make new content last longer.

If in 2.0 / ARR, you had other Categories of Items that could drop from Raids that *don't* count towards your 3 or 4 Times per Week to Lot, I think that would solve the problem some of us are worried about:

That once you use up your 3 or 4 tries per week, you'd never want to go back into that Dungeon / Fight (unless you were helping your LS or friend).

By adding stuff like Rare Materials (like Uraeus Skin, or rare Astral Lumber, Ingot, etc.) that can only be gotten from that Raid / NM / Fight, and if that didn't count towards your 3 or 4 lots, then I could see this new system not being a problem.

People would still want to go back to that "New Dungeon A" even if they used up their chances on "Darklight" (Rare Gear), to try for other Items (like those listed above - Rare Materials, Special Augmenting Key Items, Rare Totems, etc.).

So you could have completed Rare / Valuable Items, and have items that require Rare Materials, involving Crafters and Disciples of War/Magic in 2.0, and bringing back incentive to go back through a New Dungeon, even if you've used up your 3 or 4 Lots per Week (to try for other stuff).

Thanks!

the reason people would still run the content even though you cant lot anymore is to get other people in their FC gear. If you know who is getting what loot when before you enter then you shouldn't have to lot against anyone.