Critical Analysis: Relic Weapon Seal Acquisition

[Honz]

The relic quest was designed for organized linkshells/communities. Pick up groups will obviously have a harder/longer time.

For example, players without a linkshell assisting them can take anywhere from 1 week to 3 months just collecting hamlet seals. We had a new member join our linkshell recently and he only had 3 seals, he was 9/9 in 2 days.

Once the seals phase is over the rest of the quest can be a breeze with a organized/experienced group. Strongholds/AV/CC/Darkhold can all be done in a day or less. Spirit bonding takes 4-8 hours depending on job and outside help. Factions/Garuda/Ifirit can all be done in a day.

I'm sure there are plenty of linkshells who can do it even faster. As of now relic quest doesn't take more than a few days with the help of a linkshell.

[Tango]

#1. Square will always have to monitor hamlet turn ins across x servers for the entire lifespan of the game. This is a bad idea.

#2. If left as it is as servers become more populated it will remain difficult to break into the top 3, and it will become even harder to obtain the seals through top 20 provisioning since it will be more difficult. There is no consistency in the expected rate to obtain the item because it's almost like how FFXI leveling worked - it depended on the number of people around your level range. Furthermore, if future "upgradeable" versions of relic weapons rely on hamlet defense on higher ranking, competition will, at different times, become even more fierce for the same top 20 provisioner spots. This will additionally add barriers for players who haven't obtained their original weapon relic yet.

#3. The design of obtaining the relic weapon focuses on time spent and not the skill level of the player. It doesn't define skilled players from unskilled players, it separates players who have varying amounts of time on their hands.

#1. Pretty sure this is going to go away completely for 2.0

#2. As higher lvl hamlets become available the seals will continue to drop with more frequency making it easier not harder. Getting 1mil turn ins is expensive and time consuming but I did it 2x myself on a very populated server (Durandal) once with 1.5m and once with 800k. Both were done with almost 100% HQ turn in items and I farmed about half the materials and bought the other half. I crafted the finished product (bow and sword) myself. It cost me around 6M for the total turn ins plus the time to craft and gather. Its hard work but its not impossible, I think MANY MANY ppl think its impossible but they are just lazy.

#3. The skill needed is questionable but for certain some of those faction quests are very hard with avg players. Most have to abuse the full party buff and still struggle A LOT. I have done half of them and the MNK+PLD stick out to me as really tough on the DPS check. Also ifrit X is certainly a skill check to me, its very hard to carry a member in that fight.

[Chinook]

I think relic weapons quest was clearly meant as a timesink for the current version, to keep people busy until ARR.

It doesn'T hurt to continue giving feedback though.

[Babydoll]

The relic quest was designed for organized linkshells/communities. Pick up groups will obviously have a harder/longer time.

This is what basically makes or breaks the game for me. I despise how everything needs to be in an organized, SMALL linkshell commuinity to be done. Excuse me SE, I am playing a MMO...which is a Massively Multiplier Online game. I love doing things with pick ups and meeting new people, or yanno...playing with a very diverse amount of people. Hopefully this will be fixed in ARR.

[Raikki]

This is what basically makes or breaks the game for me. I despise how everything needs to be in an organized, SMALL linkshell commuinity to be done. Excuse me SE, I am playing a MMO...which is a Massively Multiplier Online game. I love doing things with pick ups and meeting new people, or yanno...playing with a very diverse amount of people. Hopefully this will be fixed in ARR.

No. Just no. Casualifying the game to the point that barely-capable-of-beating-Ifrit-level PUGs can do everything would absolutely destroy the game. You can PUG enough in the game already without demanding to be allowed to PUG relic weapons of all things. Let those of us who care about skill keep something to play for please.

[Babydoll]

No. Just no. Casualifying the game to the point that barely-capable-of-beating-Ifrit-level PUGs can do everything would absolutely destroy the game. You can PUG enough in the game already without demanding to be allowed to PUG relic weapons of all things. Let those of us who care about skill keep something to play for please.

Yes..just yes lol.

No, not casual. That is not what I meant, I do not want content for casuals.

For example, FFXI was not casual...not by any means. I nearly played FFXI with the eat sleep and breathe it mentality 24-7 and loved it. And yeah..with that game I could hop online and join PUG's and get shit done. Not easily though, haha nooo not at all.

I have played it since 2003...and anyway, people on that game only made statics for play times, not because of the content. That game was made so that it was very hard and challenging but yet pick ups could still do it BUT they had to invest an insane amount of time and effort in it. Does this make sense? Maybe I did not choose my words properly. I in no way want a casual game, those are boring and I give up on those fast..or avoid them at all costs.

I would join PUGs to do stuff and it would take the whole day. I am not against difficult, hardcore content...that is what I have been wanting for years. But I do not want to be forced to do it with the SAME 8 people every time. That gets stale and old fast to me. I love meeting new people and making new friends. That is the whole point of a MMO no? If you want 8 man content and want to play with the same group of people day in and day out....umm that is not what I imagine when I think of a MMO....

I got 2 relics from pick up groups (yes, even the ifrit extreme part), so yes it is possible to get relics from pickup groups. Just probably not NA pickups.

Yeah this is what I want. Thank you for sharing this ^^

[Raikki]

But I do not want to be forced to do it with the SAME 8 people every time. That gets stale and old fast to me. I love meeting new people and making new friends. That is the whole point of a MMO no? If you want 8 man content and want to play with the same group of people day in and day out....umm that is not what I imagine when I think of a MMO....

You're missing the point. Wanting (and having) ample PUG content is fine. Asking for literally everything in the game to be easily PUGable is not fine. If NA PUG players were willing to play on the same level as JP PUGs, that would be different, but everyone knows how low the typical NA PUG skill level is. Even still, NA PUGs can handle almost everything in the game already.

Content in general needs to be made harder to PUG, not easier. Not because you shouldn't be able to PUG it, but because if you're going to PUG it you should at least be putting in as much effort as more serious players.

[Babydoll]

You're missing the point. Wanting (and having) ample PUG content is fine. Asking for literally everything in the game to be easily PUGable is not fine. If NA PUG players were willing to play on the same level as JP PUGs, that would be different, but everyone knows how low the typical NA PUG skill level is. Even still, NA PUGs can handle almost everything in the game already.

Content in general needs to be made harder to PUG, not easier. Not because you shouldn't be able to PUG it, but because if you're going to PUG it you should at least be putting in as much effort as more serious players.

Yeah them making it easier would not fix anything >.< I don't want everything to be easy by any means, that just makes it more boring..I just want to be able to do hard stuff like how the JP do it seems. Yeah I agree the NA pug skill level is usually pretty poor, at least in FFXIV from my experience.

I am a very serious player and always try my best...I pay attention and would like to think I know how to play my jobs and I hope everyone who joins PUGs is the same way. I am a fast learner and usually can do things correct after being explained once. However in my experience that is not the case with the NA PUG groups I've joined...people just play as if they are half asleep and not paying attention. They just want to play casual and halfass everything then after wiping get frustrated and leave.

EDIT

Maybe there's a misunderstanding here, but when I read "I want to be able to PUG everything", it comes across as "I want content to be easy enough for my PUGs to beat"

Yeah that is not what I meant at all. >.< I do not want easy content. ;~; I want to be able to do what Charazard did with the JP. Keep the difficulty...by all means!!

typical NA PUG will always consist of people who are woefully underprepared for the content and aren't willing to invest enough effort into it. People like that should not be able to clear all the content in the game. That's all I'm saying.

Yes this...this is what I was trying to say!

[Shougun]

No. Just no. Casualifying the game to the point that barely-capable-of-beating-Ifrit-level PUGs can do everything would absolutely destroy the game. You can PUG enough in the game already without demanding to be allowed to PUG relic weapons of all things. Let those of us who care about skill keep something to play for please.

Using a small group doesnt mean no skill. SE could have dynamic difficulties to ensure challange through a broader party spectrum.

Hamlet becoming more open in 2.0 is exciting for this though, I really hope they do it dynamically (within reason) otherwise it will be like the stupid fire dance. Either you got so many people you just stand around and watch or not enough and its guaranteed failure.

Assuming someone wants to do it in small to solo play has nothing to do with "Casualifying" the game. Like playing dark souls single player and then screaming Y SO CASUAL - no one would do that?

And I think the problem with NA PUGs is that most NA players are Linkshell Onry, so if you are a part of a Linkshell PUG (mix of a couple linkshells) you are probably in good hands, but a true non consistent PUG sometimes you have to worry lol.

[Raikki]

Assuming someone wants to do it in small to solo play has nothing to do with "Casualifying" the game.

Maybe there's a misunderstanding here, but when I read "I want to be able to PUG everything", it comes across as "I want content to be easy enough for my PUGs to beat" because that's the only thing holding back a PUG from doing everything. You can PUG anything in the game right now if the players are good enough. The only reason it's easier for dedicated linkshells (apart from scheduling) is because the typical NA PUG will always consist of people who are woefully underprepared for the content and aren't willing to invest enough effort into it. People like that should not be able to clear all the content in the game. That's all I'm saying.