PS3 UI Screens

[Yucie]

Ambition to instance everything and make a quest-spam progression system?... real ambitious. Meanwhile other games are making non-instanced housing systems, and combat with active blocking/dodging, and so-called dynamic quests. Yoshi might be ambitious in his own head, but vision he certainly lacks. Unless by vision you mean copying WoW any chance he gets.

The only MMO with 'true' active combat is TERA. I can say zero about B&S because that isn't out in the west yet - and it won't be for quite a while. TERA is the only game I've seen that gives you full control of your avatar when it comes to hitting, moving, and dodging attacks. Don't even mention GW2 because tab-targeting is still a huge flaw in that game's system.

TERA in the west also has 'quest-spam progression'- I think completing an objective and getting a large amount of bonus experience on top of the experience given from the task alone is better than mindlessly grinding mobs for hours and hours. I'd rather get more experience in a shorter amount of times by doing quests, learning some lore, and being guided from area to area; in TERA, it made things quite easy, and leveling wasn't difficult at all. Would you rather go back to pre-Abyssea FFXI where leveling to 75 can take weeks? Even months, depending on the circumstances? No thanks.

A non-instanced housing system is irrelevant. I'd rather have my own player home in an area lotted off for me and others I welcome into it, rather than having to deal with idiots and their Barrens-style chat while I'm raising a chocobo or messing around in my house.

Oh, and if ARR was going to copy WoW, then everyone would get an instant 50 class/job with a relic weapon and all the AF, since Blizzard is so keen on giving instant high-levels to newcomers simply for buying Expansion X.

Move along, nobody appreciates someone talking about the game like they've played it.. when you obviously haven't. Lol.

[Zezlar]

Would you rather go back to pre-Abyssea FFXI where leveling to 75 can take weeks? Even months, depending on the circumstances? No thanks.

Yes, please. Been asking for a long time now.

[bobbygunz]

The only MMO with 'true' active combat is TERA. I can say zero about B&S because that isn't out in the west yet - and it won't be for quite a while. TERA is the only game I've seen that gives you full control of your avatar when it comes to hitting, moving, and dodging attacks. Don't even mention GW2 because tab-targeting is still a huge flaw in that game's system.

I was talking about ambition. Black Desert, Darkfall, Blade and Soul, Raiderz are all games on the horizon with pretentions to creating more involved combat systems while also innovating in other areas too. Black Desert has an open world (with no loading screens) and players can also own the buildings in the towns/cities. Just because these games are not out yet, or may never be realised, doesn't mean they lack ambition. The point remains that FFXIV lacks ambition. I mean, go look at a feature list for Archeage or Black Desert and compare it to FFXIV, and it's kind of shocking how games with 50% or less of the workforce of FFXIV can produce a vaster quantity of innovative features, many of which are already proven to exist in beta tests (which is more than you can even say for FFXIV which to this day, people don't know much about).

Guild Wars 2 and Archeage both have entire underwater content sections, while SE struggle to add jumping chocobos. Meanwhile Archeage has multiple mounts with a huge amount of animations (different mounting animations, turning, running speeds, rearing up, side-stepping).

It really seems like a lack of development turnout on SE's part, and the disparity in production and innovation reveals a dire lack of ambition, especially when, for constrast sake, SE will decide to make "roaming" primals which are instanced. How are they even "roaming" lol?

TERA in the west also has 'quest-spam progression'- I think completing an objective and getting a large amount of bonus experience on top of the experience given from the task alone is better than mindlessly grinding mobs for hours and hours. I'd rather get more experience in a shorter amount of times by doing quests, learning some lore, and being guided from area to area; in TERA, it made things quite easy, and leveling wasn't difficult at all. Would you rather go back to pre-Abyssea FFXI where leveling to 75 can take weeks? Even months, depending on the circumstances? No thanks.

What's your point? That TERA is bad so FFXIV should be bad too?

A non-instanced housing system is irrelevant. I'd rather have my own player home in an area lotted off for me and others I welcome into it, rather than having to deal with idiots and their Barrens-style chat while I'm raising a chocobo or messing around in my house.

An instanced housing system just takes players OUT OF THE GAMEWORLD and relegates them into instanced lobbies, thereby diminishing the "massively" component of a MMORPG. Maybe Starlord should be asking you why you play an MMO when youre obviously so antisocial.

[Skies]

An instanced housing system just takes players OUT OF THE GAMEWORLD and relegates them into instanced lobbies, thereby diminishing the "massively" component of a MMORPG. Maybe Starlord should be asking you why you play an MMO when youre obviously so antisocial.

Did not even read the entire thread but I saw this and I need to comment.
I played Ultima Online, I played goddamn Ultima Online wherein many of those 'innovative' features first existed and were later done away with because of player attitude.
One of the things that was done away with was non-instanced housing. The worlds, when they were at mid-capacity, were chock full of goddamn houses everywhere. The oldest players in the server had nice houses in nice places, the newer players had goddamn tents in the middle of some god-forsaken long-forgotten dungeon that nobody went to because it was the only space left.
No, open-world housing is a bad idea

[bobbygunz]

Did not even read the entire thread but I saw this and I need to comment.
I played Ultima Online, I played goddamn Ultima Online wherein many of those 'innovative' features first existed and were later done away with because of player attitude.
One of the things that was done away with was non-instanced housing. The worlds, when they were at mid-capacity, were chock full of goddamn houses everywhere. The oldest players in the server had nice houses in nice places, the newer players had goddamn tents in the middle of some god-forsaken long-forgotten dungeon that nobody went to because it was the only space left.
No, open-world housing is a bad idea

There's a difference between non-instanced housing and urban-sprawl/player-built housing, first of all. And if over 10 years later, you think game developers can't solve that issue, then no wonder the genre is seemingly stagnating.

And this is exactly the point of lacking ambition, the acceptance that a solution is too hard, or untested, so preserve the status quo.

[Jennestia]

And this is exactly the point of lacking ambition, the acceptance that a solution is too hard, or untested, so preserve the status quo.

Welcome to 2012.

[Shougun]

There's a difference between non-instanced housing and urban-sprawl/player-built housing, first of all. And if over 10 years later, you think game developers can't solve that issue, then no wonder the genre is seemingly stagnating.

And this is exactly the point of lacking ambition, the acceptance that a solution is too hard, or untested, so preserve the status quo.

No zone systems are entirely possible (like you are suggesting :P ), most common (works) is grid based with heavy LoD. Common example is Bethesda games, now someone will probably say grids outside of you dont render - well yes and no, but it doesnt matter because all you have to do is glide them in or "pop" as SE does once within range. Your computer doesnt need to know what the -whole- map is doing, it is irrelevant.

I think the problem is SE has no experience doing this, SE would have to test a whole new style and that would take a long time specially as their "first time" test. (1.0 is fairly zoneless but in the way they did it in their own words "limits detail of the zone by less unique textures and entities" so obviously they did it wrong lol)

Wish SE would have done no zones but it would have taken them too much time for their release schedule
- new concepts to their programmers (probably)
- level designs have to be seamless which
- something else.. lol

Anyway would have probably taken them 6 months to a year just to redesign the whole world to be a seamless piece (without the limitations).

[Godsleftsock]

It really seems like a lack of development turnout on SE's part, and the disparity in production and innovation reveals a dire lack of ambition, especially when, for constrast sake, SE will decide to make "roaming" primals which are instanced. How are they even "roaming" lol?

They roam the world and when you claim it becomes instances. Are you that retarded to be unable to understand that?

[Yucie]

I was talking about ambition. Black Desert, Darkfall, Blade and Soul, Raiderz are all games on the horizon with pretentions to creating more involved combat systems while also innovating in other areas too. Black Desert has an open world (with no loading screens) and players can also own the buildings in the towns/cities. Just because these games are not out yet, or may never be realised, doesn't mean they lack ambition. The point remains that FFXIV lacks ambition. I mean, go look at a feature list for Archeage or Black Desert and compare it to FFXIV, and it's kind of shocking how games with 50% or less of the workforce of FFXIV can produce a vaster quantity of innovative features, many of which are already proven to exist in beta tests (which is more than you can even say for FFXIV which to this day, people don't know much about).

Guild Wars 2 and Archeage both have entire underwater content sections, while SE struggle to add jumping chocobos. Meanwhile Archeage has multiple mounts with a huge amount of animations (different mounting animations, turning, running speeds, rearing up, side-stepping).

It really seems like a lack of development turnout on SE's part, and the disparity in production and innovation reveals a dire lack of ambition, especially when, for constrast sake, SE will decide to make "roaming" primals which are instanced. How are they even "roaming" lol?

What's your point? That TERA is bad so FFXIV should be bad too?

An instanced housing system just takes players OUT OF THE GAMEWORLD and relegates them into instanced lobbies, thereby diminishing the "massively" component of a MMORPG. Maybe Starlord should be asking you why you play an MMO when youre obviously so antisocial.

Two of the first MMOs you named are Korean. Tell me what Korean MMO survives in the west for longer than 3 months? Especially since B+S was JUST announced like.. a month ago for Western gamers? Korean MMOs have a bad history of short-lived existence in the west. FFXIV has plenty of ambition notwithstanding; Yoshida has done more in these 2 years than most MMOs do, what, with reviving a game and rebuilding it from pretty much scratch in less than 2 years. That's pretty good, and no other company has ever done that before. Am I wrong?

And again you touch on housing systems - they're irrelevant. Name one DECENT MMO, that's out right now, that makes housing in a non-instanced area feasible, plausable, and actually worthwhile? That would place severe limitations on what you can do with said housing - if the places are small, instanced lots where you can raise chocobos, build on your house, or even make it a Free Company hall (where you'll be SPENDING PLENTY OF TIME WITH OTHER PLAYERS, LAWL), they can give you more freedom of customization. So far, you're just a silly little boy that clings to MMOs with "lots of bells and whistles."

Understand this: MMOs that try to be super-ambitious and go too far usually fall flat on their face when it comes to basic features, and actually living up to the hype they generate. There is no 'perfect' MMO; no MMO will have all the features players want, especially not at the outset. In FFXIV's case, ARR isn't even out yet, we have small bits and pieces of info to piece together, but we know almost nothing of the game otherwise. None of us have played it. And unless someone here has a time machine, nobody knows how ARR will turn out in the future; a failure, or a success. MMOs are a constantly-evolving beast, and changes are always being made, things are always being tweaked, and new features are always developed and added. With so little of ARR to go on right now, how can we tell what ambition and vision Yoshida has for the game besides actually releasing it first?

P.S., I looked up Archeage and watched a few videos - combat seems very slow and boring, there's no pizzazz to it. Siege combat lagged horrendously and plenty of people were skipping frames as the game struggled to support so many players in one place. I also watched a lengthy video of naval combat, and a Kraken that attacked a small group of player-controlled ships; it seemed boring. The audio was poor or borderline non-existent, and all I heard was water splashing when the kraken attacked. Boats make barely any sound at sea, there is little ambiance to be had, and the overall atmosphere of the game (judging from several videos I watched) was very poor also.

If you want to cling to Korean MMOs that all fall flat on their faces, that's your choice. There's plenty of them to be had anyways. But, please, if you're only here to troll and not be a productive forum-goer, you can show yourself out. Few people have respect for you, and every post you have reeks of negativity. Just reading what you say makes me feel like my brain cells commit suicide one by one. Good day to you, madame.

[bobbygunz]

Korean racism

your argument went from "FFXIV is ambitious" to "ambition is bad".