Stats Revamp: Auto-Attack

[Shougun]

In addition to what Molly said, if we're sticking with something close to the current system (a decision I would be satisfied with one way or the other), it would be physically impossible to display contextual information like that. A vast majority of stats are dependent on dLVL, meaning a simple tooltip doesn't have enough context to determine if you are at cap or not.

Not sure why you think that it is impossible. You apply context to your character.

Intelligence increases two stats, if one of the stats is near the cap then the context will demonstrate the diminishing returns.

Just like in a lot of recent games they have "DPS" based off of all your stats on character. It is a reliable number excluding monster factors, like some monsters are really strong aganist fire so your fire damage is nulled now.

[Molly_Millions]

Not sure why you think that it is impossible. You apply context to your character.

Intelligence increases two stats, if one of the stats is near the cap then the context will demonstrate the diminishing returns.

Just like in a lot of recent games they have "DPS" based off of all your stats on character. It is a reliable number excluding monster factors, like some monsters are really strong aganist fire so your fire damage is nulled now.

I'd rather not have that level of detail.

[Elexia]

Yep since if you're level 50 and something level 70 decides to cuddle you, your stats don't matter.

[Hulan]

I don't think you understand my meaning, the cap itself is calculated in part by dLVL. The formulas for determining... well... everything in FFXIV are immensely more complex than in almost any other MMO. The effect of a given piece of gear can be approximated by assuming you will be fighting a level 60 enemy (most endgame). But any tooltip cannot safely make the same assumption. Players at earlier levels will not be facing enemies at +10, so for them, it would be an inaccurate metric.

Using your own stats as a basis would be inaccurate to the point of uselessness, since dLVL has such a strong influence on stats and stat caps. Furthermore, players fight monsters anywhere between +0 and +15 most often. Take a look at Kanican's naked Ifrit thesis for more information as to why this is a serious obstetrical with the current system.

[Shougun]

I don't think you understand my meaning, the cap itself is calculated in part by dLVL. The formulas for determining... well... everything in FFXIV are immensely more complex than in almost any other MMO. The effect of a given piece of gear can be approximated by assuming you will be fighting a level 60 enemy (most endgame). But any tooltip cannot safely make the same assumption. Players at earlier levels will not be facing enemies at +10, so for them, it would be an inaccurate metric.

I think its assumed that the calculation would consider the level of your character. Obviously attack speed would add more damage to a level 50 then it would to a level 10, or if a cap is changing on a curve then the return on investment would change as you level as well.

But where was it said that your stats are based off of monster levels? That would be some really really weird system decisions. I believe your stats dont change, just the monster has exponential resistances based on level. Which is alright, thats pretty much in all mmo's anyways.

I'd rather not have that level of detail.

Fair enough. But are you referring to for yourself, or you feel it is something unfair no one should be able to innately see? Like I figured to see full on stat details you held "hotkey" over an item tooltip - because it isnt the most immersive feature and I dont always need to see it.

[Molly_Millions]

Fair enough. But are you referring to for yourself, or you feel it is something unfair no one should be able to innately see? Like I figured to see full on stat details you held "hotkey" over an item tooltip - because it isnt the most immersive feature and I dont always need to see it.

It's not that it's unfair, it's that is turns gearing your character into a paint-by-numbers game. I'd rather see some variety that comes with a certain amount of guess work. We'd get that variety if base stats were balanced more closely with derived stats.

[Hulan]

It's not that it's unfair, it's that is turns gearing your character into a paint-by-numbers game. I'd rather see some variety that comes with a certain amount of guess work. We'd get that variety if base stats were balanced more closely with derived stats.

While I don't agree with a paint-by-numbers approach, and as I have been saying in this thread already I think such a stat-revamping is somewhat unnecessary (or at least any changes should be to other areas, like the way dLVL effects damage and defense [particularly defense]), this issue already exists and will continue to exist as long as FFXIV disparages incomparables. As long as it is possible to say "Everyone should get this gear because X stat is better than Y stat for Z reason" paint-by-numbers will exist in a meaningful fashion.

It is a well known fact that security through obscurity does not work (hiding your password in 3,000 files does not make your password any more secure). The same principle applies here, formulas should be complex because they add something to the game, not just because they make it "harder" to tell which stat is better.

[Molly_Millions]

It is a well known fact that security through obscurity does not work (hiding your password in 3,000 files does not make your password any more secure). The same principle applies here, formulas should be complex because they add something to the game, not just because they make it "harder" to tell which stat is better.

While that certainly is true, consider this; showing your password to the world means that everyone knows your password immediately. IMO the emphasis in any stat changes should be placed on balance, thus requiring a larger amount of guess work, the effect of which will be more variety. In other words, there shouldn't be such an obvious choice when choosing gear. If I used attack power over STR, I should be able to achieve very similar DMG output to somebody who favors STR. That is not currently the case unless I really heavily stack attack power.

[Hulan]

dLVL refers to the difference betten player level and target level. It's all over the FFXIV formulas. Check out Kanican's Live Journal for a more detailed explanation. Monsters that are +10 treat stats vastly different than monsters that are -10 or even +5.

Edit: Ah, on rereading your post, yes your stats don't change on dLVL. But I was speaking specifically to your suggestion that it tell you that you are not receiving any bonus above "cap". The game has no way of knowing the exact effects of any given stat bonus without being provided a dLVL. It can say "This will give you an effective +2 eva and +2 block rate". But the actual effects of those on damage or defense are incalculable.

[Shougun]

dLVL refers to the difference betten player level and target level. It's all over the FFXIV formulas. Check out Kanican's Live Journal for a more detailed explanation. Monsters that are +10 treat stats vastly different than monsters that are -10 or even +5.

Yeah thats nothing new, to most mmorpgs - though FF likes to emphasize it. There is still an incredible amount of context that is invisible that could be shown.

I'm not asking for a "what will my thunder 2 do on monsters" stat - obviously it varies.