Small Rant on Seal Rolls in Hamlet parties

[Raikki]

Let's scale this up a bit. Say there's a group of 7 friends who shout for an 8th and you join their hamlet party. Only 1 of the people in the group of 7 needs a seal, and the other 6 are helping him out. Do you deserve 50% of all seal drops even though you're contributing 1/7th as much as they are? And how is that party any different to you than if you joined a party of 8 individuals who all needed seals for themselves? Why does it matter to you?

You lost a fair roll that you knew the odds on in advance. The fact that the winner passed his reward to his friend doesn't change the fact that he contributed to the hamlet and is just as entitled to a reward as anyone else.

[Wynn]

Let's scale this up a bit. Say there's a group of 7 friends who shout for an 8th and you join their hamlet party. Only 1 of the people in the group of 7 needs a seal, and the other 6 are helping him out. Do you deserve 50% of all seal drops even though you're contributing 1/7th as much as they are? And how is that party any different to you than if you joined a party of 8 individuals who all needed seals for themselves? Why does it matter to you?

You lost a fair roll that you knew the odds on in advance. The fact that the winner passed his reward to his friend doesn't change the fact that he contributed to the hamlet and is just as entitled to a reward as anyone else.

If those were the rules of the party and it was communicated before joining that would be fine. I would simply pass on the party, just like I did the very next party I was going to join.

Let's be clear here. There was no rule for this and no I did not know in advance what they planned to do. In fact, they had an opportunity to explain what they were doing and chose to be silent. Most likely because they knew if they had explained what they were doing we would have said no. Go back and read the original post.

I think your 50% argument is smoke and mirrors and here is why:

There is a reason for establishing loot priority in the first place. If everyone really believed what I described was ok, there would be no loot priority at all. Everyone would just lot on everything and let the chips fall where they may. That is not how it works in this community/game and there is good reason for that.

I'm sorry, but I do not believe it is right to give someone more lots on an item than someone else. If other people are lotting for a different person who is also lotting for the same item, it is no different than letting that person roll more than once. It is an unfair advantage.

However, it is fine with me that you guys disagree.

[Xatsh]

Honestly my linkshell does this all the time when making a pug. 4-5 people from my ls join if one of them win the random they give the seal to the person in my ls going for the seal.

I honestly see absolutely nothing wrong with this. If he has seal as preference and you all agreed to it, and he choice to pass to his friend on what he won. That is what you get doing it in a pug.

Honestly in a pick up you should expect a 1/X shot of getting a drop where X is the number of people going for it. There is absolutely no reason for SE to change anything at all. This is an example of you all agreeing to a poor policy, next time make sure you get the party to agree to no passing seals if you think that is wrong. IF they disagree they will just kick you and get someone else, if they agree well you go on with the runs.

[Darkillumina]

While slightly unethical there are many things to take into consideration.

1. Did said person who received the seal provision? If so is he top 5 or better? It is not fair to provisioners to go to Hamlet having spent hours and/or millions of gil provisioning to get nothing in return.

2. How many seals was the person away from completing the set? Generally if someone only needs one or two seals to go I'll pass the seal to that person.

3. Were you a random pick up in a party full of link shell members? If so it is perfectly acceptable behavior. I have done many AV/CC runs where somebody helped out an LS mate and that was their prerogative.

For example, today I provisioned and got top 5 in Aleport. Since I was going strictly for seals I let my other LS mates who came along know that if an item dropped to me other than a seal I would gladly pass it. By the end of the night I had 2 seals, (1 from the npc and one dropped to me) and on the last run somebody else got a seal. Since he did not want the seal, we all rolled and my friend who won the lot passed the seal to me seeing that I only needed 2 more seals to finish the Hamlet step. I generally refuse such things but my friend insisted. I will do the same for him in the near future.

Again it's a tough situation. In my case all of us who needed a seal rolled for it. We didn't have a ringer who had all his/her seals doubling my chances. It was really just his kindness that allowed me to finish Aleport. There are many variables in their decision to be honest so I can't render judgement either way.

[Wynn]

While slightly unethical there are many things to take into consideration.

To answer your questions:

1. Did said person who received the seal provision? If so is he top 5 or better? It is not fair to provisioners to go to Hamlet having spent hours and/or millions of gil provisioning to get nothing in return.

No. Neither player were in the top 20. I was number 6 though.

2. How many seals was the person away from completing the set? Generally if someone only needs one or two seals to go I'll pass the seal to that person.

I don't know how many they had to go. However, I still had two to go myself.

3. Were you a random pick up in a party full of link shell members? If so it is perfectly acceptable behavior. I have done many AV/CC runs where somebody helped out an LS mate and that was their prerogative.

I was a random and it does appear the two may have been guildies but on different guilds at the time. I will point out it wasn't like it was 7 guildies and me. It was more half and half. However, they were not upfront about what they planned to do and attempted to do it in secret once everyone left the instance. I saw it because I happened to stay until they had no choice but to pass in my presence or have it drop into the other guy's loot list simply because I was suspicious and I was right for being so. If they had been upfront, I would have said I'll pass and left. This was late into the party after 4 runs when they pulled this because they knew the party was breaking up after that run. To reiterate, this was not some party rule that was set up, these two did this on their own.

[axemtitanium]

Wha? This is common practice. The friend probably had 3/3 seals or wasn't interested in getting seals. That's why I generally run hamlets with mostly LS to get higher chances at loot drops that you actually want. If you really want that seal, just buy it from them. Most people I've seen offer 500k-1mil.

[IBloodmoon]

The only reason anyone is up in arms over this is because it involves seals. If this was over a militia subligar or one of the gather's AF helm this post would not even exist. I'm still waiting for someone to give a real explanation of how it is shady or unethical to give up your own chance for loot to help out a friend with something they need; how it negatively affects your chances of winning the lot if 4 people need a seal and are rolling for it compared to if 2 people need the seal and 4 are rolling for it. Why should anybody be forced to help out a bunch of people, they don't know, get seals with no reward for themselves. Are you really saying that if I don't need or want anything from Hamlet, I can not help a friend get what they need/want?

It was agreed that the person could switch lots by the OP. That is the end of the story. If he didn't want his chances lessened by the extra lot, then he should have said no to allowing the switch.

[Eliseus]

Whether or not he kept the seal or gave it to his friend you still weren't getting it. You didn't win the roll and he was using the loots rules set by the leader of your party to do whatever he wants with HIS seal. Get over it.

[Arkine]

The loot system in the problem.

It can give loot to people that can't even use it but decide to keep it and screw others and it can allow people to completely tip the scale in someone's favor by having their friends lot for them.

I've been on both ends of the spectrum and I'm glad its going to change in ARR.