If SE is taking away my hard work...

[Alhanelem]

I think the basic problem here is that you are confusing the real world economies with SE economy. In the real world governments take an active part in regulating their economies in order to ensure the very things you are talking about. As such the arguments you make would be very valid. Unfortunately SE has always taken a hands off approach in regards to the economy. Therefore Gil will always enter the economy at a rate far greater then its removal. Gil sinks and the such will have little or no effect. You will always have people who will spend every playing hour trying to corner the market in goods forcing people to spend large amounts of time just trying to make Gil to keep up. Please look up SEs history in this matter. It has always been the case with them. Til they make an idealogical shift in their thinking you will always have a problem of too much currency available. SEs current tactic of revaluation (as you wish to call it) is just a half hearted effort to redefine the starting point.

The problem is real world economies and "SE" or any video game eoconomies are really not much different. You can look at any economy in any game or any place on earth and the basic core principles are the same.

[viion]

The problem is real world economies and "SE" or any video game eoconomies are really not much different. You can look at any economy in any game or any place on earth and the basic core principles are the same.

Economy in the real world is maintained, it is actually very carefully monitored in a sense that some areas of the market are strictly forbidden to undercut (not all, SOME), and its illegal for price fixing, it is then heavily regulated by many government services that the industry scales with the redenomination. When the event occurs, a place selling cars did not keep them at the same value, or reduce to 1/5th, by government control they were kind of "forced" to reduce to 1/10th in order to maintain balance.

In-Game, this is not the case, there is NO one to maintain balance but us, there is NO one to control undercutting, price fixing and scalability but us.

It is very different. You can read up about situation where this has caused financial crisis in countries.

[AzuraSin]

*still reading ... munch munch*

viion your point is that you believe once the market stabilizes people will be paying more due to the re-denomination, is that right? So the counterpoint that "people won't pay higher prices" is moot, because they won't have a choice.

I guess I'm still thinking that people will buy what they can afford, and people will only sell what others can buy. Even if there wasn't going to be a re-denomination, item values would shift due to game changes, so your scenario has the potential to be true regardless. Just the same I think an influx of new players (which is inevitable at least for the short term), who all have 0gil to begin with, must have an impact on item prices. Rampant speculation doesn't really accomplish anything, as you've pointed out, but I also don't think there's any reason to worry too much one way or the other.

Ultimately there are far too many factors involved to say "we will lose money due to the re-denomination," especially since the denomination of a currency has no bearing on item cost (or, if any, far less than supply/demand). If prices go up, they would have gone up anyway, and likewise if they go down. This by itself is not a catalyst for a significant market shift in either direction, and even if it is a contributor there is an ever-growing list of things that will contribute far more to valuation of goods.

People don't like being taken advantage of. Those who have been around and know that prices are too high will refuse to buy. Those who don't pay attention... hell, if they have the gil then let them spend it. There's nothing stopping folks who are "losing money" from likewise making it through the same circumstances, as has been pointed out.

[Rizon]

Economy in the real world is maintained, it is actually very carefully monitored in a sense that some areas of the market are strictly forbidden to undercut (not all, SOME), and its illegal for price fixing, it is then heavily regulated by many government services that the industry scales with the redenomination. When the event occurs, a place selling cars did not keep them at the same value, or reduce to 1/5th, by government control they were kind of "forced" to reduce to 1/10th in order to maintain balance.

In-Game, this is not the case, there is NO one to maintain balance but us, there is NO one to control undercutting, price fixing and scalability but us.

It is very different. You can read up about situation where this has caused financial crisis in countries.

you said it much better then I did. Thank You.

Alhanehem...if you want to get an idea of the effects of an unregulated economies read up on what led up to the Great Depression. The things you mentioned in your OP actually happened in the late 1920s, especially in the old Weimer Republic of Germany.

[Alhanelem]

Economy in the real world is maintained, it is actually very carefully monitored in a sense that some areas of the market are strictly forbidden to undercut (not all, SOME), and its illegal for price fixing, it is then heavily regulated by many government services that the industry scales with the redenomination. When the event occurs, a place selling cars did not keep them at the same value, or reduce to 1/5th, by government control they were kind of "forced" to reduce to 1/10th in order to maintain balance.

In-Game, this is not the case, there is NO one to maintain balance but us, there is NO one to control undercutting, price fixing and scalability but us.

It is very different. You can read up about situation where this has caused financial crisis in countries.

It is not very different. SE does monitor its economy as does every company monitors the eoconomy of their own game.

Price fixing might not be "illegal" but that doesn't mean it's easy to get away with. It can only easily happen with extremely rare goods that only a few people cposess and thereby can control. More typical commodities cannot be controlled this way.

Price fixing won't be any more or less of an issue than it is today. Undercutting in fact will prevent any real issues with gouging. This stuff is all a non-issue. The key similarities between this economy and any economy are the very reasons why this is not a big deal and people are blowing itway out of porportion.

because so many things are going to change when 2.0 comes out, all kinds of things will change in the economy as well- it is pointless to even try to predict how people will behave.

[AzuraSin]

Economy in the real world is maintained, it is actually very carefully monitored in a sense that some areas of the market are strictly forbidden to undercut (not all, SOME), and its illegal for price fixing, it is then heavily regulated by many government services that the industry scales with the redenomination. When the event occurs, a place selling cars did not keep them at the same value, or reduce to 1/5th, by government control they were kind of "forced" to reduce to 1/10th in order to maintain balance.

In-Game, this is not the case, there is NO one to maintain balance but us, there is NO one to control undercutting, price fixing and scalability but us.

It is very different. You can read up about situation where this has caused financial crisis in countries.

I feel like I have to point out that this re-denomination is exactly the kind of maintenance/regulation that you're saying In-Game economies don't have.

[Wynn]

Yes, but those things already have a set price. People just exploit others for the sake of profit. An iPad is not worth $1500 ever, but some stupid Mac lover will pay that price because they GOTTA HAVE IT, when they could just wait 2 months and find them everywhere. Nobody is happy to pay more than twice what an item is worth...they just do it because they're stupid and want it sooner than later.

Right.... That is exactly my point...

So, let the stupid people lose their money. Smart players will know better.

Smart players would exploit these people.

You're right. And it will happen.

But the great thing about that situation is that those people that are willing to pay those outrageous prices will suddenly find they hemorrhaged money much faster than they were able to take back in because redenomination smacked them right upside the head. And they won't realize this until they are broke or close to it which will happen very quickly.

Once those people have no more money to pay outrageous asking prices, guess what happens to those prices? That's right. They inevitably fall since the seller can no longer get what they were originally asking. It is a win/win. Market stabilizes to reasonable prices and idiots with money are parted from it.

[Vindrax]

Right.... and? This whole argument is about what I predict, I never once said anything is a sure bet, I never once said I know this will happen, I said countless times that I will predict "this will happen" because of "this and this and this" and people are like THAT WONT HAPPEN, im sorry but it is a possibility, it is something that could happen. You might not think it will, but I think it could.

As I said earlier, it could very well be that prices go to 1/20th of their value and you become richer in that area because you can buy twice as many now. Relics could become 1m each and u could buy 3 of them. Its a possibility that could very well happen, but I do not believe it will, thats my opinion.

Oh don't get me wrong I definitely assume that there will be specific items that gain value, probably significant value. But these gains in value are going to almost entirely come from gameplay mechanics changes, instead of the redenomination of gil. I just don't want people to come in and read your post and liquidate their gil thinking that it's better to have a stockpile of items going into ARR then gil. Because it's not true, and take an extreme risk in doing so, as nobody knows exactly which items are going to be valuable (and this is why SE cautions players as such).

Gil will be the one constant that will carry over into the new economy and will retain its value 100%. In terms of the market, this game is all about relative wealth of players, and that will not change with the redenomination of gil. Anyone that benefits monetarily from stockpiling items will be the lucky ones that happened to pick the items/materials that are needed in increased demand in ARR, nothing more, nothing less. And since neither you, nor anyone else knows which items those will be, I just want to caution readers to not follow in your path, unless they are potentailly willing to risk losing vast amounts of wealth.

This is very much like playing the stock market, except we have no real way to predict future values. As the one poster noted Electrum Ingots, who knows, Electrum ore could be dropping off every high level mob for all we know (or crafting recipes changed that drastically reduce the amount of ingots necessary). You are extremely confident in your view, which is fine, but there are a number of posters that clearly don't understand the effect of this gil redenomination and my fear is they do something they are going to regret later, because they panic'ed when they saw they're losing 9/10ths of their gil.

[viion]

*still reading ... munch munch*

viion your point is that you believe once the market stabilizes people will be paying more due to the re-denomination, is that right? So the counterpoint that "people won't pay higher prices" is moot, because they won't have a choice.

I guess I'm still thinking that people will buy what they can afford, and people will only sell what others can buy. Even if there wasn't going to be a re-denomination, item values would shift due to game changes, so your scenario has the potential to be true regardless. Just the same I think an influx of new players (which is inevitable at least for the short term), who all have 0gil to begin with, must have an impact on item prices. Rampant speculation doesn't really accomplish anything, as you've pointed out, but I also don't think there's any reason to worry too much one way or the other.

Ultimately there are far too many factors involved to say "we will lose money due to the re-denomination," especially since the denomination of a currency has no bearing on item cost (or, if any, far less than supply/demand). If prices go up, they would have gone up anyway, and likewise if they go down. This by itself is not a catalyst for a significant market shift in either direction, and even if it is a contributor there is an ever-growing list of things that will contribute far more to valuation of goods.

People don't like being taken advantage of. Those who have been around and know that prices are too high will refuse to buy. Those who don't pay attention... hell, if they have the gil then let them spend it. There's nothing stopping folks who are "losing money" from likewise making it through the same circumstances, as has been pointed out.

Yes, I am saying because of the redenomination of us going down, if item pricing does not go down too, then we need to pay more. Now when you say "Well things scale anyway". No, not the same, Never in the games history has every single item gone up by 20% or 50% over night. This has never, ever happened and I highly doubt it is ever a possibility if things stay the same way and when this transfer happens, that situation occurs. Hope that makes sense! lol.

Players will 0 gil could effect, but if for example, an item starts at 5m, and goes down and down and by the end of the month lands on 2m, and in that month time new players are able to get 2m and purchase that item now, it has been balanced out at 2m, When it should have balanced at 1m to be equal, the new player has not effected the balancing but helped maintain its higher pricing.

There are many factors, but you missing the point about why the denomination will affect cost, as stated in my first paragraph (view Russian 1998 crisis for a similar incident, where the value of rube dropped 80%) You say "If prices go up, they would have gone up anyway", do you think all items over night will go up 20% anyway? I don't think that would happen, i think that has a massively low chance in the current climate, but I see it very viable when we are redenominated.

I have been around since day 1, and many people on my server have, this did not stop them spending 4-5 times more on shards 1 year later, or stop them paying 3-4 times more for materia and been taken advantage off. They dont like it, but they do it.

[Maxwell]

Short and sweet version: SE is relaunching the game with a clean market. Therefore, the market WILL reestablish itself and fluctuate is the process whether SE proceeds with redenomination or not !

Do not blame user generated fluctuations on redenomination.