Removal of player Bazaar

[Riv]

Who actually uses the Bazaar to sell things? Sure, i've put food or something up for LS mates to buy for 1 gil or something simply because it's faster than the retardedly slow trading system but that's about it.

Really, bazaars are only used for holding equip you don't use very often or extra ammo...and it's a cheap and somewhat unfair way for ppl to possess multiple rare items such as primal weapons and militia gear. So i say cheers to getting rid of player bazaar!

However, i guess this means we can't put up items for repair in the bazaar anymore. That was one of the things i liked about it.

[Ferth]

The only thing that's being suggested is one of the interface we use. Whether it's 3d modeled NPCs, or some board we go to with the same data presented differently won't change the fact that those servers can encounter problems. It's all the same data, that data needs to be stored somewhere, that storage requires a server.

Ugh sorry for the double post, but yes, the DATA servers won't change, but we won't need to have servers devoted to rooms full of mannequins if they make the wards a place you can't visit. That is the resource I am referring to. And seeing how it adds nothing to the gameplay experience having those wards it really shouldn't be that much of a sacrifice to remove them.

[Molly_Millions]

I do know that. But do those servers need to be able to support hundreds of npcs and players that need to be rendered should someone decide to visit them? that requires a bit of a beefier server than something that just supports menu coding and item lists.

You are neglecting the fact that while browsing the MW, players are actually moved off of the servers for the cities at large and onto a physically different server, thus reducing stress in the cities. This is a huge benefit that goes unmentioned in all of the threads talking about MW vs AH.

[Molly_Millions]

Ugh sorry for the double post, but yes, the DATA servers won't change, but we won't need to have servers devoted to rooms full of mannequins if they make the wards a place you can't visit. That is the resource I am referring to. And seeing how it adds nothing to the gameplay experience having those wards it really shouldn't be that much of a sacrifice to remove them.

that's more of a benefit than a negative aspect of the MW because of the reduction of stress to the game world at large.

[Ferth]

You are neglecting the fact that while browsing the MW, players are actually moved off of the servers for the cities at large and onto a physically different server, thus reducing stress in the cities. This is a huge benefit that goes unmentioned in all of the threads talking about MW vs AH.

If they made retainers summonable from our homes, and allowed us to access the wards from our retainers that also would eliminate congestion for the more crowded areas.

Or the market ward counter could still be a separate instance as it is now, just without the umpteen rooms full of retainers.

[Alhanelem]

Ugh sorry for the double post, but yes, the DATA servers won't change, but we won't need to have servers devoted to rooms full of mannequins if they make the wards a place you can't visit. That is the resource I am referring to. And seeing how it adds nothing to the gameplay experience having those wards it really shouldn't be that much of a sacrifice to remove them.

Whether or not it "adds anything to your gameplay experience" is subjective opinion. The fact is that outside of the fact that there is an NPC in the world represeting what you have for sale, the markets are functionally almost identical to an "auction house" and thus the system only needs to be optimized and adjusted at this point. Rebuilding from the ground up when you already have a (mostly) workable system is foolhardy at best. They can get it right without starting over.

The server resources devoted to the market are totally independent of the resources needed for anything else and making the markets more server-processing efficient will not impact anything not related to the markets.

[TimonLoon]

I love how people say "because its used as storage"
But why not just make it impossible to use for storage?
I dont often check bazaar simply because i know that 90% of items there are priced 99999999 gil.
But if u couldn't use em as storage, maybe people would use em to actually sell things?

If people can't use their bazaars for storage then they will go to their other use... jack shit. They won't be used and you're not fooling anyone. lol

NO ONE is going to be actively trying to sell something in their bazaar that is constantly moving and unsearchable over using the Wards/AH. NO ONE. You included.

[Ferth]

From a game play standpoint they are independent. From a development standpoint they are a resource that needs to be maintained.

I completely agree with everything you say about the search function of the wards being exactly what an auction house would do. I don't think they need to scrap it or rebuild it or anything. I'm just saying we don't need rooms full of storage npcs.

And the biggest flaw from a gameplay standpoint is the capacity. If people can't easily get the retainer on the wards many of them won't bother. Molly's comment about linking all of the wards is one way they can alleviate that problem(and from an ease of use standpoint it should be done regardless.)

But that still allows for a bunch of really pointless rooms packed to bursting with creepy lifeless mannequins who serve no purpose beyond convoluting the process required to buy and sell items from other players.

If someone wants to argue that they enjoy the experience of actually going to the wards and searching through the retainers, bully for them. Though unless they are just really weird... they are probably lying.

[Alhanelem]

I love how people say "because its used as storage"
But why not just make it impossible to use for storage?

Explain to me how you would prevent people from using them as storage. There's really no way to avoid it- but that's not really even the main problem- People also abuse it to carry multiple U/U items because they don't count as part of your inventory.

People "store" stuff in their bazaar by "selling" it for an unreasonable price. Since nobody buys it, their stuff is safe (and if someone does buy it, you are now rich). There's no way to be able to sell stuff in it without it also doubling as storage, other than to make the bazaar not seperate from your inventory. Thing is, that doesn't completely solve the issue either. Remember FFXI? with people stuffing heart chocolates and other stuff they "dont want to accidentally drop" in their bazaars for 999999999 gil?

I completely agree with everything you say about the search function of the wards being exactly what an auction house would do. I don't think they need to scrap it or rebuild it or anything. I'm just saying we don't need rooms full of storage npcs.

Do you understand that the server does not render the NPCs? All it has is a bunch of XYcoordnates, and a name which links to a database containing the retainer info. The server doesn't have to do anything when there isn't anyone standing near a retainer.

One thing I like about them is it gives you the option of going to the NPC instead of buying from the menu and thereby saving you the fee if you aren't in a real hurry. This also creates an oppertunity for secondary impulse sales that doesn't exist with a regular AH system.

[Ferth]

Explain to me how you would prevent people from using them as storage. There's really no way to avoid it- but that's not really even the main problem- People also abuse it to carry multiple U/U items because they don't count as part of your inventory.

People "store" stuff in their bazaar by "selling" it for an unreasonable price. Since nobody buys it, their stuff is safe (and if someone does buy it, you are now rich). There's no way to be able to sell stuff in it without it also doubling as storage, other than to make the bazaar not seperate from your inventory. Thing is, that doesn't completely solve the issue either. Remember FFXI? with people stuffing heart chocolates and other stuff they "dont want to accidentally drop" in their bazaars for 999999999 gil?

If the bazaars didn't add "extra" storage then it would not be used that way. If by putting an item in my bazaar it didn't actively remove that item from my inventory then it wouldn't provide extra storage.

If you ever played FFXI the bazaar system from that game worked exactly like that. If it was a tradable item, I could toss it in my bazaar, the item was still in my inventory I just couldn't interact with it until I removed it from my bazaar.

The problem with that approach though, and my guess on the matter, is that the new inventory system in 2.0 is not going to be menu based, it's going to be an icon grid. And rather than figure out how to make the item grid work with a personal bazaar they just scrapped the idea completely.

Do you understand that the server does not render the NPCs? All it has is a bunch of XYcoordnates, and a name which links to a database containing the retainer info. The server doesn't have to do anything when there isn't anyone standing near a retainer.

One thing I like about them is it gives you the option of going to the NPC instead of buying from the menu and thereby saving you the fee if you aren't in a real hurry. This also creates an oppertunity for secondary impulse sales that doesn't exist with a regular AH system.

The server doesn't render them but it does assign a capacity for how many can fit in a given room. And it needs to support player capacity too which means that it needs servers that can support a given number of players inside one at a given time.

If we can't visit them, then it doesn't require it anymore.

As for the benefit of going to a ward to save some gil on sales tax, That's really the only valid argument for keeping them, and that can be re-balanced with their removal as well.

As I proposed earlier, allowing us to access the wards and the search feature through our retainers or through the market stall, a slight tax from using the retainer instead of visiting the stall would functionally be identical.