"Revamped" Rewards System

[NefGP]

Yes let's let Ifrit weapons be as powerful as Garuda weapons, they are almost a year old now and Garuda is 1000x more difficult than Ifrit.

People need to let the damn Ifrit weapons go, there are a ton of alternatives that are as good/much better.

They're both Primals, why should one's rewards be strictly better than the others?

Honestly, shut up. The beauty of XI's design for years (until level cap increase) was the dev team would constantly pump out alternatives to the older gear, without obsoleting it - effectively giving players many choices. THAT is good game design, and probably one of the major reasons XI has lasted as long as it has. A Year old? Big deal, Sky Gear was amazing for 5+ years. That's the other extreme I'll grant you, but it's not like they didn't try to make anything that could compete with it, such as Limbus & Salvage gear.

Heck even the Nyzule Isle stuff was pretty decent. Campaign gear wasn't horrible for a while... etc etc. The WoW approach of simply negating older gear with new content is absurd and all it does is restrict our options and kill incentive for new players to try the older content. Again, another strong point of XI - there's always something to do.

[AntonyB]

They're both Primals, why should one's rewards be strictly better than the others?

Honestly, shut up. The beauty of XI's design for years (until level cap increase) was the dev team would constantly pump out alternatives to the older gear, without obsoleting it - effectively giving players many choices. THAT is good game design, and probably one of the major reasons XI has lasted as long as it has. A Year old? Big deal, Sky Gear was amazing for 5+ years. That's the other extreme I'll grant you, but it's not like they didn't try to make anything that could compete with it, such as Limbus & Salvage gear.

Heck even the Nyzule Isle stuff was pretty decent. Campaign gear wasn't horrible for a while... etc etc. The WoW approach of simply negating older gear with new content is absurd and all it does is restrict our options and kill incentive for new players to try the older content. Again, another strong point of XI - there's always something to do.

If I could, I'd like this post 100x over. Well said.

[TimonLoon]

Maybe they plan to 'Wowitize' content so you are guarateed at least one of the rarest drops, whether 'Blue' or 'Green', every run, so that will be one Darklight every dungeon run that drops darklight, or whatever blue gear it drops. Maybe 2. . .

Maybe Yoshi-P is blowing smoke and drop rates will still be at abismal levels and people will still spam everything :/

This would actually be amazing.

What WoW did with Heroic Dungeons would work in this game.

1. Boss have their own loot pool (good stuff that got you ready for the earlier raids in the game) and drop 2 items each run (some items are rarer than others).
2. Each boss in the instance dropped 1 token per kill for each member in the group. Automatically distributed to PT members.
3. Tokens were used to buy gear that was slightly higher level than the gear dropped in those dungeons.
4. Heroic Dungeons had a 24hr lockout that triggered at 12AM PST. Meaning if you completed the instance at 11PM PST you could go back in at 12AM PST but after that run you must wait for the next reset. Think levequests.

With this system, everyone in the group made progress. Not just one lucky person.

I really dislike the 15 minute lockout for dungeons that we currently have. The timer is short enough that people wait it out and not long enough to do much of anything else during the wait except stand around or craft. I personally have very limited playtime these days so when I'm online I want to be doing something, anything. I would not mind if the lockout on those dungeons was anywhere between 1 and 24 hours and guaranteed loot as opposed to the current.

Also, LOL @ people above saying XI always had something to do... Yeah I remember that... Always waiting on people to gather so that we can stand around and not do anything for 3 hours. Yep that was super productive. <--- sarcasm for the obtuse

[TimonLoon]

Itemization and Equipment in XI was god awful. You had Lv30ish gear that was better than max Lv gear and you wore the same shit for almost 6 years.

Take off those rose-tinted goggles cause I don't wan't a repeat of that.

What the new FFXIV team has been doing with gear in this game is a step in the right direction.

[KamikazeMan]

Rewards will probably change depending on the class you complete quests as. For example, if you finish a level 35 that rewards a weapon, completing the quest as a Black Mage will reward you with a BLM staff; if you were to finish that same quest as a Bard, you would get a bow. That's just a guess.

[TimonLoon]

Rewards will probably change depending on the class you complete quests as. For example, if you finish a level 35 that rewards a weapon, completing the quest as a Black Mage will reward you with a BLM staff; if you were to finish that same quest as a Bard, you would get a bow. That's just a guess.

Should be able to choose the reward that you want from those kinds of quests (all the weapons are same level and have decent stats). Unless the reward is specifically tied to the story of that quest.

[NefGP]

Itemization and Equipment in XI was god awful. You had Lv30ish gear that was better than max Lv gear and you wore the same shit for almost 6 years.

Take off those rose-tinted goggles cause I don't wan't a repeat of that.

What the new FFXIV team has been doing with gear in this game is a step in the right direction.

Name even 1 item in that range that's anywhere remotely comparable to LV 75 gear other than the PCC, because you're really blowing some thick smoke with that comment (and the CoP rings don't count as they scale up in stats with levels).


I second the notion of totems/guaranteed drops. It also justifies making fights excessively hard/challenging. Garuda was a good step up from Ifrit, with the automatic 2 tokens per win (as opposed to the horrendous drop rate for Ifrit & Mog).

[Almalexia]

Astral Ring and Cassie Earring off the top of my head. But that's not much of a list.

FFXI had an endless slew of sidegrades and situational gear that either relieved your inventory (by introducing gear that converged multiple pieces of gear into one) or burdened your inventory (by introducing pieces of gear that could each be useful in different situations). It's a good way to add longevity to content, but a bad way to give players a sense of character progression.

An FFXI MNK in 2005 and an FFXI MNK in 2010, given a choice of optimal gear, are not as statistically different as you might think. What changed over time was player understanding of game mechanics, techniques and styles of play independent of any great statistical growth. We became cleverer, not stronger. Remember how Kirin took 30+ minutes to kill with BLMs and RNGs in 2005? We could have applied 2008's melee burn strategy just as well back in 2005--if we knew how to gear our characters then. I still remember STR/ACC MNK back in the day. We were so dumb then.

Anyway, all that sidegrading provides a fantastic illusion of growth and motivates people to do content, which is fine in the short term. Maybe 1-1.5 year cycles of sidegrade content. The problem with FFXI was sidegrading became the law of the land as soon as the level cap hit 75 and remained so until the cap raised again 8 years later. I can imagine how this would be very discouraging to a player who didn't buy into the illusion.

FFXIV can't be afraid of making older gear obsolete if they want to elicit from players a genuine feeling of character growth. I think they are on the right track when it comes to handling obsolete gear, though. We can already trade in primal weapons and Darkhold gear for GC seals. These items may be obsolete for some players, but they aren't worthless. Squenix should have a redemption plan for all content rewards after a certain amount of time as they push forward to create new content and more powerful gear.

[TimonLoon]

Striders, Ochiudos Kotes, Cassie/Astral Earrings, Fuma Kyahan (arguable), Peacock Charm, Haubergeon (59 but best thing for a lot of DDs), ACC rings to name a few.

[Velhart]

Astral Ring and Cassie Earring off the top of my head. But that's not much of a list.

FFXI had an endless slew of sidegrades and situational gear that either relieved your inventory (by introducing gear that converged multiple pieces of gear into one) or burdened your inventory (by introducing pieces of gear that could each be useful in different situations). It's a good way to add longevity to content, but a bad way to give players a sense of character progression.

An FFXI MNK in 2005 and an FFXI MNK in 2010, given a choice of optimal gear, are not as statistically different as you might think. What changed over time was player understanding of game mechanics, techniques and styles of play independent of any great statistical growth. We became cleverer, not stronger. Remember how Kirin took 30+ minutes to kill with BLMs and RNGs in 2005? We could have applied 2008's melee burn strategy just as well back in 2005--if we knew how to gear our characters then. I still remember STR/ACC MNK back in the day. We were so dumb then.

Anyway, all that sidegrading provides a fantastic illusion of growth and motivates people to do content, which is fine in the short term. Maybe 1-1.5 year cycles of sidegrade content. The problem with FFXI was sidegrading became the law of the land as soon as the level cap hit 75 and remained so until the cap raised again 8 years later. I can imagine how this would be very discouraging to a player who didn't buy into the illusion.

FFXIV can't be afraid of making older gear obsolete if they want to elicit from players a genuine feeling of character growth. I think they are on the right track when it comes to handling obsolete gear, though. We can already trade in primal weapons and Darkhold gear for GC seals. These items may be obsolete for some players, but they aren't worthless. Squenix should have a redemption plan for all content rewards after a certain amount of time as they push forward to create new content and more powerful gear.

This worked out in a unique way in FFXI, but I am not for situation gear in FFXIV. I don't like carrying more gear for one job than I should.

It needs to be simplistic. Like if I am DRG, it is set on the table and clear as day that you want STR/PIE/Crit Rate/Crit ATK and focus on gear that gives me this, or WHM with MND/Healing Magic+/Enhancement+. The stat system does not need to be complex to be fun. Other MMO's approach it like this also. They make gear that caters to a job's primary stats. You see a piece and you can tell who it is for.

FFXI was a fun system, but I do not want it again. It was pretty tiring carrying 2-3 sets for three of my jobs. Its a big hassle to me.

Striders, Ochiudos Kotes, Cassie/Astral Earrings, Fuma Kyahan (arguable), Peacock Charm, Haubergeon (59 but best thing for a lot of DDs), ACC rings to name a few.

I was never a fan of this either. When I am lv.75, I clearly want lv.75 gear on all my stuff. I don't think SE studied enough of what people want to will way later on how people use gear, or what piece was popular at the time. I also never understood why Samurai could wear a Haubergeon, but not a Hauberk or Adaman Hauberk. Not even giving DRG access to that set for that matter.


But overall, I want gear that caters to a job. You look at a piece with STR/PIE/Crit on it and you say "Ohh, that is clearly a DRG piece.". For one it prevents 8-24 people tackling each other down for one piece and the competition would be between you or another DRG in the party. WoW wasn't like this at first either, but by WoTLK, they were able to segregate gear and the reward system was a lot friendlier than it was before. Its the reason they don't like inviting multiple classes to a party, to ease competition and get benefits from other classes.

Right now in FFXIV, as soon as that DL piece drops (Especially Light DPS in my case.), all jobs that can wear it (Which are usually 3-4 people in my party.) start going at each other for it. While there will always be general pieces that are friendly to a lot, this method would ease tension and lower competition for a piece. It works in other MMO's, and it can work in here.