"Revamped" Rewards System

[Velhart]

If they implement a system like that I'll probably lose interest in the game and quit. I really can't imagine anything worse happening than that. I like to have long term goals that are challenging, and as such are very rewarding. I don't want the objects that I worked so hard to obtain to become obsolete shortly after... This is one of the reasons I loved FFXI and played it for so long, it was well designed in this aspect. I don't want a horse and carrot system that's designed to keep me building completely new gear sets every few weeks.

SE should Keep people interested by releasing quality content that complements existing content not half-assed quantity releases that overrides existing content. I can't express how much I hate this idea. I hope that it's just a misunderstanding, and I'm optimistic it is because I don't ever remember him mentioning that, but I guess only time will tell.

It is a respective opinion, at the same time, giving one thing for someone to work years to get can get pretty boring to me at least.

Giving new goals and new content to work within different periods of the year keeps the game itself fresh and exciting. As I said, just my opinion on it. FFXI built itself around very long term goals successfully, however, FFXI is based around a niche community. FFXIV is trying to cater to the casual everyday MMO player and FFXI's very hardcore and very long term reward system may be off putting to them. The system I said above seems like a very possible outcome from SE to cater to the casual player and reward the hardcore at the same time.

[Vindrax]

Well kind of have to put the pieces together. Nothing I say is definite, but only going off logic here.

Now first off, he expressed in an early interview when 2.0 was announced, he claimed he would be making a system where gear gets outdated every major update (Like how WoW out dates gear when a new raid opens.). This makes me believe we will have an ilvl system like other MMO's practice right now. Usually new raids open every 4-6 months in other MMO's, if that is what they are aiming to do also. However do note this system isn't like FFXI and XIV's, where you don't have very long term goals, it is set up to get the best of the content available given within that time before they give you new goals to work for. Some like this, some don't, but I am not saying this to give an opinion, just a prediction.

As for gear like Darklight in normal dungeons. I believe this will be gear that will drop more commonly than seen right now. It won't be better than raid gear however, but it will give you the push you need to get you started on the raid.

So in short, I see it like this:

Do assortment of dungeons to get gear good enough for raids > Get gear in raids > 4-6 months later new dungeons/raid comes out > Rinse and repeat

Now for drops, I don't believe it will go by % like it is now. I believe it will go by a loot table, where lets say one raid boss has 10 pieces of gear, 3/10 are guaranteed to drop each time, but they are picked by random, one not having a higher chance than the other. This would make things fair if spread out by all jobs, and someone at least walks out happy each time, if not, you get tokens towards other gear by vendors.

Like I said, not giving an opinion if this is a working system, but if he is pulling traditional MMO elements in here, this seems like a possible route.

This. Not saying this is the direction that the game is going to go, but this is the traditional MMO approach. The one thing that Velhart didn't mention however is that one of the ways that WoW stops you from "spamming content" is a week long instance lock, which only allows you to attempt each raid dungeon once a week. This prevents "spamming" however every boss you kill drops a predetermined number of loot at 100%, although the pieces dropped may not be the ones that you want and they get divided up amongst your party (usually through either "rolling" dice for the item where the highest number takes it, or a "loot master" usually a linkshell leader who would determine who gets which piece).

[Velhart]

This. Not saying this is the direction that the game is going to go, but this is the traditional MMO approach. The one thing that Velhart didn't mention however is that one of the ways that WoW stops you from "spamming content" is a week long instance lock, which only allows you to attempt each raid dungeon once a week. This prevents "spamming" however every boss you kill drops a predetermined number of loot at 100%, although the pieces dropped may not be the ones that you want and they get divided up amongst your party (usually through either "rolling" dice for the item where the highest number takes it, or a "loot master" usually a linkshell leader who would determine who gets which piece).

Yea I forgot about that, on the plus side though (Unless you have gotten really good at the raid where you can beat it in one night), you could make save points during the week. So if there are 10 raid bosses in one raid, and the group decides to call it a night on the 4th one, you could pick up on it again the next night, but it would have a week long timer till the raid resets itself. I always liked this and hope Crystal Tower will work like this.

[Vindrax]

Yea I forgot about that, on the plus side though (Unless you have gotten really good at the raid where you can beat it in one night), you could make save points during the week. So if there are 10 raid bosses in one raid, and the group decides to call it a night on the 4th one, you could pick up on it again the next night, but it would have a week long timer till the raid resets itself. I always liked this and hope Crystal Tower will work like this.

Not saying I want this exact system in FFXIV, but I would love for the idea of having save points in dungeons just because they are so inconic to the Final Fantasy series in general!

[TimonLoon]

Itemization and Equipment in XI was god awful. You had Lv30ish gear that was better than max Lv gear and you wore the same shit for almost 6 years.

Take off those rose-tinted goggles cause I don't wan't a repeat of that.

What the new FFXIV team has been doing with gear in this game is a step in the right direction.

[NefGP]

Itemization and Equipment in XI was god awful. You had Lv30ish gear that was better than max Lv gear and you wore the same shit for almost 6 years.

Take off those rose-tinted goggles cause I don't wan't a repeat of that.

What the new FFXIV team has been doing with gear in this game is a step in the right direction.

Name even 1 item in that range that's anywhere remotely comparable to LV 75 gear other than the PCC, because you're really blowing some thick smoke with that comment (and the CoP rings don't count as they scale up in stats with levels).


I second the notion of totems/guaranteed drops. It also justifies making fights excessively hard/challenging. Garuda was a good step up from Ifrit, with the automatic 2 tokens per win (as opposed to the horrendous drop rate for Ifrit & Mog).

[KamikazeMan]

Rewards will probably change depending on the class you complete quests as. For example, if you finish a level 35 that rewards a weapon, completing the quest as a Black Mage will reward you with a BLM staff; if you were to finish that same quest as a Bard, you would get a bow. That's just a guess.

[TimonLoon]

Rewards will probably change depending on the class you complete quests as. For example, if you finish a level 35 that rewards a weapon, completing the quest as a Black Mage will reward you with a BLM staff; if you were to finish that same quest as a Bard, you would get a bow. That's just a guess.

Should be able to choose the reward that you want from those kinds of quests (all the weapons are same level and have decent stats). Unless the reward is specifically tied to the story of that quest.

[Almalexia]

Astral Ring and Cassie Earring off the top of my head. But that's not much of a list.

FFXI had an endless slew of sidegrades and situational gear that either relieved your inventory (by introducing gear that converged multiple pieces of gear into one) or burdened your inventory (by introducing pieces of gear that could each be useful in different situations). It's a good way to add longevity to content, but a bad way to give players a sense of character progression.

An FFXI MNK in 2005 and an FFXI MNK in 2010, given a choice of optimal gear, are not as statistically different as you might think. What changed over time was player understanding of game mechanics, techniques and styles of play independent of any great statistical growth. We became cleverer, not stronger. Remember how Kirin took 30+ minutes to kill with BLMs and RNGs in 2005? We could have applied 2008's melee burn strategy just as well back in 2005--if we knew how to gear our characters then. I still remember STR/ACC MNK back in the day. We were so dumb then.

Anyway, all that sidegrading provides a fantastic illusion of growth and motivates people to do content, which is fine in the short term. Maybe 1-1.5 year cycles of sidegrade content. The problem with FFXI was sidegrading became the law of the land as soon as the level cap hit 75 and remained so until the cap raised again 8 years later. I can imagine how this would be very discouraging to a player who didn't buy into the illusion.

FFXIV can't be afraid of making older gear obsolete if they want to elicit from players a genuine feeling of character growth. I think they are on the right track when it comes to handling obsolete gear, though. We can already trade in primal weapons and Darkhold gear for GC seals. These items may be obsolete for some players, but they aren't worthless. Squenix should have a redemption plan for all content rewards after a certain amount of time as they push forward to create new content and more powerful gear.

[Velhart]

Astral Ring and Cassie Earring off the top of my head. But that's not much of a list.

FFXI had an endless slew of sidegrades and situational gear that either relieved your inventory (by introducing gear that converged multiple pieces of gear into one) or burdened your inventory (by introducing pieces of gear that could each be useful in different situations). It's a good way to add longevity to content, but a bad way to give players a sense of character progression.

An FFXI MNK in 2005 and an FFXI MNK in 2010, given a choice of optimal gear, are not as statistically different as you might think. What changed over time was player understanding of game mechanics, techniques and styles of play independent of any great statistical growth. We became cleverer, not stronger. Remember how Kirin took 30+ minutes to kill with BLMs and RNGs in 2005? We could have applied 2008's melee burn strategy just as well back in 2005--if we knew how to gear our characters then. I still remember STR/ACC MNK back in the day. We were so dumb then.

Anyway, all that sidegrading provides a fantastic illusion of growth and motivates people to do content, which is fine in the short term. Maybe 1-1.5 year cycles of sidegrade content. The problem with FFXI was sidegrading became the law of the land as soon as the level cap hit 75 and remained so until the cap raised again 8 years later. I can imagine how this would be very discouraging to a player who didn't buy into the illusion.

FFXIV can't be afraid of making older gear obsolete if they want to elicit from players a genuine feeling of character growth. I think they are on the right track when it comes to handling obsolete gear, though. We can already trade in primal weapons and Darkhold gear for GC seals. These items may be obsolete for some players, but they aren't worthless. Squenix should have a redemption plan for all content rewards after a certain amount of time as they push forward to create new content and more powerful gear.

This worked out in a unique way in FFXI, but I am not for situation gear in FFXIV. I don't like carrying more gear for one job than I should.

It needs to be simplistic. Like if I am DRG, it is set on the table and clear as day that you want STR/PIE/Crit Rate/Crit ATK and focus on gear that gives me this, or WHM with MND/Healing Magic+/Enhancement+. The stat system does not need to be complex to be fun. Other MMO's approach it like this also. They make gear that caters to a job's primary stats. You see a piece and you can tell who it is for.

FFXI was a fun system, but I do not want it again. It was pretty tiring carrying 2-3 sets for three of my jobs. Its a big hassle to me.

Striders, Ochiudos Kotes, Cassie/Astral Earrings, Fuma Kyahan (arguable), Peacock Charm, Haubergeon (59 but best thing for a lot of DDs), ACC rings to name a few.

I was never a fan of this either. When I am lv.75, I clearly want lv.75 gear on all my stuff. I don't think SE studied enough of what people want to will way later on how people use gear, or what piece was popular at the time. I also never understood why Samurai could wear a Haubergeon, but not a Hauberk or Adaman Hauberk. Not even giving DRG access to that set for that matter.


But overall, I want gear that caters to a job. You look at a piece with STR/PIE/Crit on it and you say "Ohh, that is clearly a DRG piece.". For one it prevents 8-24 people tackling each other down for one piece and the competition would be between you or another DRG in the party. WoW wasn't like this at first either, but by WoTLK, they were able to segregate gear and the reward system was a lot friendlier than it was before. Its the reason they don't like inviting multiple classes to a party, to ease competition and get benefits from other classes.

Right now in FFXIV, as soon as that DL piece drops (Especially Light DPS in my case.), all jobs that can wear it (Which are usually 3-4 people in my party.) start going at each other for it. While there will always be general pieces that are friendly to a lot, this method would ease tension and lower competition for a piece. It works in other MMO's, and it can work in here.