A cure for surplus.... kinda..

[Abriael]

So, basically you want to remove a timesink made to give casual players an advantage, to add one to put them at a disadvantage? It doesn't really have anything to do with the reasons why surplus was implemented, and it doesn't add any challenge or real thrill to the game.

Nah. I'd rather them remove the timesink altogether, without adding any. Timesinks don't add any challenge, they're just there to waste people's time. And we waste plenty time already in many areas of the game (like running).

[Rokien]

I'm not really saying for time sync purposes. I just think it would be a good death penalty. Every game, even casual games have a worse death penalty then this game does.

[Abriael]

I'm not really saying for time sync purposes. I just think it would be a good death penalty. Every game, even casual games have a worse death penalty then this game does.

Really? I know quite a few games that do NOT have a sizably worse death penalty than this game does. Warhammer Online, Age of Conan, Rift...
Basically any modern MMORPG developer did away with harsh death penalties. Why? because they're nothing else than a useless timesink and challenge should be added by actually creating challenging encounters, and not by giving a mere delusion of challenge with a death penalty that is nothing else then a waste of gaming time.

Besides, there are several threads about death penalty, maybe you should have posted there.

[Rokien]

Ya, but that is my fault for not looking around. D:. I also kinda wanted to get my idea out. Also, never played EQ, didn't know that they did that. Also, I was talking every game in general. Like if you havnt saved in a while(I know thats your own fault) and you die, you have to back track an hour or so or longer. I know iv done that many times. I'm sure most people have as well.

[Abriael]

Ya, but that is my fault for not looking around. D:. I also kinda wanted to get my idea out.

Like everyone that posts in this forum. If everyone opened his own thread to "get his idea around" the forums would be quite the mess (and actually too many do, and that's one of the reasons why the forums are already quite the mess).

As for backtracking in other games, that's why developers have been pushing to reduce the problems, with automatic checkpoints, autosave, quicksave and other features.
It's in a developer's interest not to make people feel like they are wasting their time. Which is exactly what harsh death penalties end up achieving.

[Rokien]

Ya, I know. Like I said it was my fault for not looking. Also, I know, but theirs games that really hurt you if you die like, Demon souls. Dieing puts tension in a tight spot. Makes you more alert and careful, putting strategies into your next move/attack. That's what I like about death penalties. Puts you on the edge of your seat, type of deal.

[Abriael]

Ya, I know. Like I said it was my fault for not looking. Also, I know, but theirs games that really hurt you if you die like, Demon souls. Dieing puts tension in a tight spot. Makes you more alert and careful, putting strategies into your next move/attack. That's what I like about death penalties. Puts you on the edge of your seat, type of deal.

Demon's souls isn't appreciatd for it's death penalties. It's appreciated mainly because the fights are actually challenging in themselves. Also, demon's souls isn't a subscription based game where frustration is something to avoid (frustration -> ragequitting -> less money for the developer). Finally it's a niche game, that appeals only to a very precise kind of hardcore gamer. On the other end FFXIV has been publicized from the very start as casual-friendly.

The "demon's souls" (at least for death penalties) of MMORPGs already exists. It's called Darkfall Online, and it failed harder than FFXIV will ever manage.

The way to make people alert and careful is to give them something to fight that requires them to be alert and careful to be defeated, not to make them waste gaming time if for whatever reason they die (or because someone else makes them die, which happens quite often).

[Kazimir]

So, basically you want to remove a timesink made to give casual players an advantage, to add one to put them at a disadvantage? It doesn't really have anything to do with the reasons why surplus was implemented, and it doesn't add any challenge or real thrill to the game.

Nah. I'd rather them remove the timesink altogether, without adding any. Timesinks don't add any challenge, they're just there to waste people's time. And we waste plenty time already in many areas of the game (like running).

Surplus was not added as a timesink, it was to get people to level more classes to utilize the action & traits system, instead of just rushing to 50 on one. Even with surplus you can hit 50 in a month so it's not like it's much of a penalty anyway.

The only reason why people complain about it is they want to hit the cap as soon as possible. But I guess I can understand why, the process of leveling in this game is so boring right now you can't really stop to enjoy it.

[Abriael]

Surplus was not added as a timesink, it was to get people to level more classes to utilize the action & traits system, instead of just rushing to 50 on one. Even with surplus you can hit 50 in a month so it's not like it's much of a penalty anyway.

The only reason why people complain about it is they want to hit the cap as soon as possible. But I guess I can understand why, the process of leveling in this game is so boring right now you can't really stop to enjoy it.

You actually described a timesink pretty much perfectly. Timesinks are mechanics in place, between other things, to make people take more time to reach the endgame. The fact that it also encourages people to play different classes (I would say almost forces) is more of a consequence than a cause, and so it was described both by Tanaka and Komoto.