PLD ENMITY ISSUE ON MISER

[Dzian]

I really don't think that's going to be good enough to hold hate against a 170+ DPS MNK starting with full TP and BV Paeon.

If the paladin also has paeon and is spamming flatbades in the between all that stuff it's very doable. alot of people forget hallowed ground is more than just oh shit invincible button it has a fairly decent chunk of emnity attached to it.

Personally if I've built tp outside on the mites then I typically run in flash / voke, fast blade flat blade and once everyones around around and hitting miser use rampart. Then fast blade, flat blade aegis, sentinel your spirits within, then flash, voke, dv, sp, cure etc hit your hallowed ground hopefully in time with the second round of howling fists and you should be pretty much golden.

[Judge_Xero]

Mistress is squishy (probably from marinating all day in Goldbile) and you won't take a lot of damage from her anyway, so gear for damage yourself.

Here is what I do when tanking Miser's Mistress:

Provoke and Flash.
Divine Veil, Outmaneuver, Phalanx, Spirit's Within
Rampart
Sentinel once Divine Veil is down and start Goring Blade combo.
Sacred Prism, Aegis Boon to ensure a block for AOE Cure. (Coordinate with your WHM so they know.)
Hallowed Ground when Sentinel goes down.
Riot Blade a little over a minute in, where monks should be prepping for 2nd Howling Fist combo.
Otherwise Provoke and Flash as they become available and Flat Blade combo as TP allows.

I prefer to have Heart Drops (removes Poison and Paralysis) for Bad Breath instead of using a Maddening Potion.

PLD works fine for Mistress Miser.

Good advice.

To OP it really depends on your Paladin Gear. You definatly want a DD setup for this fight. You should be pulling over 1K enmity just from a Flat Blade combo if you have STR and MND at or near the stat caps.

[1clou]

]While I agree Miser is more problematic to tank on Pld, and generally speaking easier on War overall, I agree with majority of the posters on here about methods of tanking. Everyone has their preferences on style, some have many depending on situation which separates a people from being a meat shield and a tank. Only going to comment on Pld and leave War out of this being it is a Pld category. There are HP, Vit, Def, Dmg, Enmity gear set ups. Which one you use for each fight depends on what your fighting and I have tried all of the ones mentioned(Im leaving DL/HDL out since either your working on getting it, or don't have it) For Miser I will either go Vit, Dmg or HP and have no problem managing hate on any of them. Vit is good for general buffs on the pt between actions and minimizing dmg intake(use this for weaker groups) HP I will use for high dmg groups which may sound like im just going for survivability but actually playing right into Sprits Within, which gets an astronomical boost dmg wise which boosts your enmity immensely every 60 seconds which can be comboed with a mad pot, misc enmity gear, sentinel. Dmg is easy enough to understand and guess at, im going for dmg, but as Pld your never going to do great dmg in comparison to your DD's, BUT what you can do is use every opportunity you can to boost your pt's physical dmg by a good 1.5x-2.5x dmg which makes the fight last that much less. As Pld you should not only be looking at holding hate the entire time, but also looking to do everything you can to best benefit the pt as a whole instead of trying to prove yourself and show off(not saying you are/were, just a rule of thumb)

Generally speaking I will go in with a Vit or Dmg set up on Miser and get into position outside of agro range like majority of people do. pop outmanouver, pop mad pot, run in , voke, flash, phananx, bloodbath, sentinel, spriits within, bleed effect combo(cant rember names and yes get the effect), voke, flash, riot blade, aegis boon, phalanx, sentinel, bloodbath, spirits within, repeat combinations and cover as need be, with moderate gear you will do fine. With that said dodge the breathes, use actions that benefit the pt as a whole even if it means letting someone else get hate for a bit, just use cover and use it as an opportunity to heal yourself for enmity.

I don't agree with the post saying Pld gets majority of enmity from healing, if that is the primary source of your enmity generation it needs to be tweaked so its not so reliant. I am assuming though with you saying that, that you try to maximize your other traits.

I tanked for a couple of the people you were with OP that you might have been having troubles maintaining enmity on, but I have held hate on them without really trying that hard. Try looking into what play style you want to go for and amplify it so that you can roll with it in any situation and dominate it to make it yours even if it makes you stand out like a sore thumb.

I appologize for the long post, but I know it will be of some help to some people having issues with Miser. It just takes a little bit of fineness and prowess to make tanking seem effortless from one fight to another to be on par or exceed another job/class that would be otherwise niche.

[Molly_Millions]

There are HP, Vit, Def, Dmg, Enmity gear set ups.

This is more of a general question, but I thought I'd ask it here. When you say HP setup, how much total HP are you talking about?

My build atm is mostly a DMG build, but with the improvements to my gear I'm currently working on, I'm shooting for pretty decent HP in addition to stats important for a DMG build.

[1clou]

on PLD its a safe 4500 without food. for example on Chim it works pretty well as well as any mob, with general no hp gear can get a decent 300dmg and crit for 450ish, where as the hp set can get 600 dmg and 800-900dmg crit. really decent enmity generation with that combo which imo is first if not second at the very least to riot blade(could be goring, but the one where youg et enmity generation from using it from behind)

[Molly_Millions]

A lot of folks I play with are getting that much HP via the full militia set. But tbh, I really don't like the gloves compared to mine. Sure, the enmity and HP on them is nice, but 41 STR is hard to argue with. As far as how much enmity is gained from attacks, doesn't it basically take a percentage of your damage dealt and convert it to enmity? If that's the case, I think I'd actually be sacrificing enmity from dmg just to add it back via the enmity bonus on the militia gloves. Actual numbers/testing aside that's not something I want to do. I like hitting for relatively big numbers on my PLD.

[GreyJorildyn]

Can't hope to gain enmity through damage on every mob in the game. The only thing Chimera takes any real damage from is Spirits Within. A dps set on that mob is laughable. Methinks in most zergs it would be as well because, while one of the above posters may disagree, healing is a crucial component to Paladin's hate-game, to varying degrees of course. On Chim it's a good chunk, on Miser it could be but WAR is just superior there, and on certain other mobs it's favored less so. In all cases it is still important and people in this section (mostly the ones that have little real end game experience) often neglect to talk about enmity boosting cure hate. They spend a lot of time prattling on about stat caps for a job that can't dps worth a shit and won't hold hate without enmity gear against 150-180 dps players.

There's a lot of "go with what works for you" stuff that gets shoveled around this section too and honestly I think it does more harm than good most times. There's shit that works and shit that doesn't work. Concern yourself with some aspect of the former and tailor it to the players you roll with. Be advised though that as they get better gear and become better players, you will have to do the same, and that means enmity build. Not hp build. Not str/mnd. Enmity. So work on it now. Whatcha got to lose?

[Judge_Xero]

....and that means enmity build. Not hp build. Not str/mnd. Enmity. So work on it now. Whatcha got to lose?

I've always been curious what you run Grey. HDL with Tripple Melded Enmity Belt?

[GreyJorildyn]

I have three gear sets for PLD. All use Curtana, obviously. All use Kite Shield (HP+151). Food swaps between Apkallu Omelette and Tuna Miq'abob as needed.

Set #1 (HP) when I have Ballad
HDL Armor
HDL Gauntlets
Cobalt Plate Belt (Enmity+42)
Felt Trousers (HP+163)
Sentinel's Sabatons (HP+127)
Stonewall Earring
Militia Choker
Raptorskin Wristbands +1
Stonewall Ring
Electrum Ring +1

Uses: Chimera

Set #2 (Coat/HP/Enmity) when I don't have Ballad <- this is my go-to set for most things we're testing.
Cobalt Celata +1 (MND+50)
Gallant Surcoat
HDL Gauntlets
Cobalt Plate Belt (Enmity+42)
Felt Trousers (HP+163)
Sentinel's Sabatons (HP+127)
Stonewall Earring
Militia Choker
Raptorskin Wristbands +1
Stonewall Ring
Electrum Ring +1

Note: Sometimes I swap in the HDL Flanchard here if I am having enmity troubles, but it's rare.
Uses: Ifrit (Extreme)

Set #3 (Full Enmity)
HDL Armor
HDL Gauntlets
Cobalt Plate Belt (Enmity+42)
HDL Flanchard
Stonewall Earring
Militia Choker
Coral Armillae +1
Stonewall Ring
Electrum Ring +1

Uses: Rarely use it, but I probably would if I did Garuda or Coincounter as Paladin.

Other stuff I use situationally: Holy Shield/White Ravens (not a lot of use for either on PLD though).

[Judge_Xero]

I have three gear sets for PLD. All use Curtana, obviously. All use Kite Shield (HP+151). Food swaps between Apkallu Omelette and Tuna Miq'abob as needed.

I just find it so hard to imagine that 13-20% extra Enmity on all actions is enough to keep up with decked out Blackmages and Monks. But I guess it has to, considering.

while one of the above posters may disagree, healing is a crucial component to Paladin's hate-game

While I don't disagree with this. I just don't like the fact that heals generate only 60% Enmity. I'm sure a well timed AOE Cure on Miser could generate around 2000 Enmity. But a Flat Blade Combo with added STR generates 1k+ on a 10 second cooldown.

Thanks to reading your build info. I'll probably work on making something similar. I know it will definatlely be more effective on some bosses anyways, compared to what I use.