No Arrows in ARR?!

[Hart]

I don't know why people are complaining about arrow costs now. You knew before you went archer that you had to buy arrows. Infact, different choices in arrows added a level of customization not available in any other job, that alone makes it worth the price.

If you didn't want to buy arrows, maybe you should have leveled a different job? No, instead you whine until developers gut the system to accommodate your hobo lifestyle.

[Shougun]

I don't know why people are complaining about arrow costs now. You knew before you went archer that you had to buy arrows. Infact, different choices in arrows added a level of customization not available in any other job, that alone makes it worth the price.

If you didn't want to buy arrows, maybe you should have leveled a different job? No, instead you whine until developers gut the system to accommodate your hobo lifestyle.

Quite a fallacy you build yourself on.

Because something is doesnt mean it has to be as.

And SE whipped that one out on their own, I've seen almost zero complaints on arrows at least from the NA side.

[Hart]

Because something is doesnt mean it has to be as.

Speaking of fallacies -- You know, your statement will still be factual even when the arrow change-up has occurred. So I find it odd that you would use it to try and debase my argument.

[Shougun]

Speaking of fallacies -- You know, your statement will still be factual even when the arrow change-up has occurred. So I find it odd that you would use it to try and debase my argument.

I never said it had to be one way or another way. I just said you saying it cant be this way was a bad choice for a base of logic.

Specially since SE has said this is the way they prefer the class to be done, so your argument just got bitch slapped by SE lol.

I find the arguments on realism more reliable. Arrows are consumable, consume them.

However my personal opinion is that I'm glad they have removed the arrow upkeep - it is extremely obnoxious to see someones class become useless because they forgot to buy more arrows.

I'm sorry you can't cast anymore spells you forgot to buy crystal points at home - so, too bad the tank needed that cure 5 seconds ago.

[Hart]

I never said it had to be one way or another way. I just said you saying it cant be this way was a bad choice for a base of logic.

You're either talking in circles or putting words into my mouth. I never said it can't be anything. It's like you totally disregarded anything I actually said and decided to rebuke just on a whim.

The system was fine, you had no problems with archer using ammo until they planned on changing it and you decided to play devil's advocate.

As for running out of ammo... it sucks, we get that. No one does it on purpose, and everyone makes mistakes. With that said, as an archer, you know you have a limited amount of ammo and you know it is your primary attack. It is your responsibility to keep track of your own inventory. Everyone does this to some extent. Why now is this an issue?

If we really need to address conserving money I think SE should implement some sort of majicked lunchbox that will supply me with unlimited food dishes so I don't actually have to pay to feed myself.

[Deakka]

You're either talking in circles or putting words into my mouth. I never said it can't be anything. It's like you totally disregarded anything I actually said and decided to rebuke just on a whim.

The system was fine, you had no problems with archer using ammo until they planned on changing it and you decided to play devil's advocate.

As for running out of ammo... it sucks, we get that. No one does it on purpose, and everyone makes mistakes. With that said, as an archer, you know you have a limited amount of ammo and you know it is your primary attack. It is your responsibility to keep track of your own inventory. Everyone does this to some extent. Why now is this an issue?

Just because the system is in place doesn't mean it's fine. Players do what they have to do in order to do content and be competitive. Most people don't complain because they accept the system as is. It doesn't mean it's a good system by any means though. It's an extra wrinkle in micromanagement that no class has to deal with.

It all has to do with "busy work", content (like farming gil for arrows or materials to craft them yourself) whose only goal is to let you do other content. That differs from content that has it's own rewards and leads you to higher level content (progressing in missions/quests etc). Most MMO's have been leading away from "busy work" content for awhile... since it's truly the definition of grinding. It's just not fun content. Why have 1/8th of the player base waste time (above and beyond what everyone else does with food/potions etc) doing said busy work when they could be doing more fun content. Now if you can say with a straight face that you enjoy having an extra hour or two farming (or spending extra gil just to remain on par), then I'm shocked. It's just not actual content, it's an artificial gate.

Busy work needs to die in a fire

[Deakka]

I don't know why people are complaining about arrow costs now. You knew before you went archer that you had to buy arrows. Infact, different choices in arrows added a level of customization not available in any other job, that alone makes it worth the price.

If you didn't want to buy arrows, maybe you should have leveled a different job? No, instead you whine until developers gut the system to accommodate your hobo lifestyle.

I'm sorry, but this is another "Illusion of choice" that a lot of MMO's fall victim to (former WoW, SWTOR etc). What possible benefit can a lv50 archer have by using mythril arrows opposed to cobalt? Weathered composed to bronze? If anything, it's just a tool designed to punish those who don't research out of game (in other words, busy work that pulls you away from actually doing content). If there were status and enfeebling arrows, it'd be a different story. But no, it's all flat damage +

There is no hobo mentality with this (other than some JP's using weathered arrows until cobalt). It's simply an artificial gate in a genre where those gates are seen as old and, quite frankly, pointless. Why not simply bake the arrow damage into normal bard/archer formulas? Since every level capped bard doing bleeding edge content will be bringing cobalt arrows anyway. There's no sense to it other than reducing player performance for those who don't do "busy work". It's not a skill check in the slightest.

[Nikita]

If you didn't want to buy arrows, maybe you should have leveled a different job? No, instead you whine until developers gut the system to accommodate your hobo lifestyle.

Lol ok I just had to comment on this one.

Looking at the archer/bard forum, I see one thread asking for arrow removal that is buried under a few pages, but that is about it. One thread, that is it. I can't comment on the other languages, however, I am pretty sure there was little demand for it...

With all of these changes we are getting, maybe they aren't doing them because people are whining, but rather because... *gasp* these changes make sense...

We are seeing many changes in 2.0 that are clearly being made to make the game more enjoyable to a larger audience. It is obvious these alterations are causing you some amount of mental distress, yet here you remain. Instead of griping about them catering to certain "lifestyles", maybe you should take a step back and realize that they have a clear vision for 2.0, and you were expecting them to cater it to your "lifestyle".

[Hart]

Lol ok I just had to comment on this one.

Looking at the archer/bard forum, I see one thread asking for arrow removal that is buried under a few pages, but that is about it. One thread, that is it. I can't comment on the other languages, however, I am pretty sure there was little demand for it...

With all of these changes we are getting, maybe they aren't doing them because people are whining, but rather because... *gasp* these changes make sense...

We are seeing many changes in 2.0 that are clearly being made to make the game more enjoyable to a larger audience. It is obvious these alterations are causing you some amount of mental distress, yet here you remain. Instead of griping about them catering to certain "lifestyles", maybe you should take a step back and realize that they have a clear vision for 2.0, and you were expecting them to cater it to your "lifestyle".

Well, considering they are changing the ammo system because more than a few people were using weathered arrows all the way to cobalt, I would say the bums won, dude. Oh, and about their clear vision for 2.0, what we say does have an impact on what happens. You would do well to remember that, instead of trying to justify every bad decision. I know they don't listen to every "griper", but on occasion they do tend to listen to player feedback. Don't be that guy, no one likes SE apologists.

I'm sure they had a clear vision for 1.0 as well, or at least that's what they told you and the stock holders.

I don't know how 2.0 will turn out, I can only voice my opinion and let the chips fall where they may.

[Deakka]

Well, considering they are changing the ammo system because more than a few people were using weathered arrows all the way to cobalt, I would say the bums won, dude.

They in no way stated that was the reason. You're literally pulling facts out of the air to support your position. Yoshi-P gave the dev team's reasoning in the translation. I suggest you reread for context and clarity