No Arrows in ARR?!

[Pandastirfry]

Since the old Scavenge ability was brought up...

It never got back any ammo at all. It gave you a buff that essentially acted like a free arrow.

Unfortunately the arrow it acted like was a Warped Arrow.

way back at launch this is what I thought "Replenish" was supposed to do, from the discription (Paraphrasing here) "Puts arrows back into your quiver" I thought it meant SHOT ARROWS, took a few tries before I realised it meant "from a non-equipped stack in your inventory"

[Vanguard319]

Since the old Scavenge ability was brought up...

It never got back any ammo at all. It gave you a buff that essentially acted like a free arrow.

Unfortunately the arrow it acted like was a Warped Arrow.

I wasn't talking about scavenge, I was talking about an entirely different ability that was never used. It was called retrieval and basically used a portion of your HP to recover some ammunition. (much like convert) It was listed in archer's abilities on the original website for the game.

[Lyndis]

What happened to classes being unique...?

Lets make melees start with full tp like mages with thier full mp. Every class needs its weapon drawn to use abilities. No limit on arrows making archers just another Damage class with no unique twist.

I understand each class will have their own unique abilities making them useful in different ways. It sounds to me like all classes are going to be the same difficulty and play style. Just like every other MMO. Spam your abilities till it's dead. There is no diverse play aesthetic.

Seriously, people complain about the copy pasted environments, yet here they are doing it again with their class system. Does no one see this removal of arrows as a nerf to archer?

[Arcell]

What happened to classes being unique...?

Lets make melees start with full tp like mages with thier full mp. Every class needs its weapon drawn to use abilities. No limit on arrows making archers just another Damage class with no unique twist.

I understand each class will have their own unique abilities making them useful in different ways. It sounds to me like all classes are going to be the same difficulty and play style. Just like every other MMO. Spam your abilities till it's dead. There is no diverse play aesthetic.

Seriously, people complain about the copy pasted environments, yet here they are doing it again with their class system. Does no one see this removal of arrows as a nerf to archer?

Considering TP regen is now a fixed rate, TP management will be a bigger concern for melees which means they will have to play smarter and utilize their class/job abilities in a more efficient manner. The playstyles will be different from what little they've revealed so far.

You don't just spam abilities until the enemy is dead, that's a good way to force yourself to wait around for a while regenerating resources.

Taking away arrows as a consumable changes very little about how the class/job actually works, it was a useless mechanic.

[Lyndis]

Considering TP regen is now a fixed rate, TP management will be a bigger concern for melees which means they will have to play smarter and utilize their class/job abilities in a more efficient manner. The playstyles will be different from what little they've revealed so far.

You don't just spam abilities until the enemy is dead, that's a good way to force yourself to wait around for a while regenerating resources.

Taking away arrows as a consumable changes very little about how the class/job actually works, it was a useless mechanic.

I'm sorry, I was using a exaggerated and unverified claim to bring out how annoyed I am by this change. My point wasn't to say that combat is going to become a mindless attack fest. Though if they are pushing towards being like other MMOs, which does seem to be the case, this is likely to happen.

My point is to say that they are making all classes play the same and have similar restrictions. TP = MP. Making mages and melee DDs the same. Even healing will play the same. Not to mention they are removing the ability to cast while in passive mode, another unique trait of mages. And now we learn that even archer is losing one of its unique traits.

I understand that everyone wants every class to be even. They think they shouldn't be punished by choosing archer. Simply because they want to fight with a bow, why should they have to spend more of their gil? But have arrows really stopped people from enjoying the class?
>>>>>> Why can't they just make arrows cheaper and/or introduce a quiver bag to store arrows

Why is removing realism and class uniqueness a trend for 2.0?

[Arcell]

My point is to say that they are making all classes play the same and have similar restrictions. TP = MP. Making mages and melee DDs the same. Even healing will play the same. Not to mention they are removing the ability to cast while in passive mode, another unique trait of mages. And now we learn that even archer is losing one of its unique traits.

Mages and melee DDs won't even be close to the same considering they've already talked about making Monk quite different from even the other melee DDs. Melee classes have combos which have various effects and the first attack still starts from a specific direction. Completely different from mage combos which just need to not be resisted. The whole casting in passive mode wasn't that great of a choice to begin with seeing as it means mages never have to, nor should they ever, take their weapons out. It doesn't really change the mechanics of the spells themselves, it just means you have to be in active mode which should have been the case the whole time.

I understand that everyone wants every class to be even. They think they shouldn't be punished by choosing archer. Simply because they want to fight with a bow, why should they have to spend more of their gil? But have arrows really stopped people from enjoying the class?
>>>>>> Why can't they just make arrows cheaper and/or introduce a quiver bag to store arrows

They're removing arrows because they are a needless game mechanic that isn't bringing anything to the table gameplay wise. What's the difference between the current system and the new system? Inventory -1, that's it.

Why is removing realism and class uniqueness a trend for 2.0?

It's Final FANTASY so realism has never really been a selling point. They're removing it because it makes sense gameplay wise. We haven't seen much of the classes but they're re-vamping every last skill and ability in the game. I imagine they'll be unique. Hell even what we've seen so far of Dragoon has some unique bits with the spear throwing ws. Archer has been confirmed to have some arrow buffs in this very thread.

[Lyndis]

1. They're removing the need to stand at a certain spot for combos. Even that doesn't make a class feel different. Just because I stand in a different spot doesn't make a class feel different. It does make it play a very slightly different way. But we should still have a larger difference to class than simply where they stand. How they function should be different.

2. Nothing is ever JUST about gameplay. There is an emotion evoked with each artistic piece placed into the game. How does music affect gameplay? Why is it so important for FFXIV to have next generation graphics? gameplay reasons? If they dumbed that down I'm sure they could manage some more unique gameplay. But they don't. I remember an archer that chose that class simply because the challenge that buying arrows brought. I've been interested in it myself simply because the variance arrows brought to GAMEPLAY. It's not JUST inventory -1 and if that truly is your only reason for REMOVING SOMETHING THAT'S ALREADY THERE (why change it if it's not broken??) then why don't they add a quiver bag??

3. If you don't think realism is a part of final fantasy you don't understand it. Yes it is obviously a fantasy. But there's a much higher quality to it than just smashing fantasy elements into one pot. I've seen games do that. Have you ever played Aion? Where they had Dinosaurs giant pianos and people flying around on wings in a floating city all with no real reason other than it's magic all within five feet from one another? Yeah Dinosaurs are cool and I'm sure people would love an epic giant piano. But just mashing it together because it's epic does not make art.

- As for the arrow buffs confirmed by the dev. They're no different than the buffs other classes have other than maybe their specific effect and timing. They all enter the battlefield with a click of your ability bar the same as all the others.

[Ingolf]

1. They're removing the need to stand at a certain spot for combos. Even that doesn't make a class feel different. Just because I stand in a different spot doesn't make a class feel different. It does make it play a very slightly different way. But we should still have a larger difference to class than simply where they stand. How they function should be different.

2. Nothing is ever JUST about gameplay. There is an emotion evoked with each artistic piece placed into the game. How does music affect gameplay? Why is it so important for FFXIV to have next generation graphics? gameplay reasons? If they dumbed that down I'm sure they could manage some more unique gameplay. But they don't. I remember an archer that chose that class simply because the challenge that buying arrows brought. I've been interested in it myself simply because the variance arrows brought to GAMEPLAY. It's not JUST inventory -1 and if that truly is your only reason for REMOVING SOMETHING THAT'S ALREADY THERE (why change it if it's not broken??) then why don't they add a quiver bag??

3. If you don't think realism is a part of final fantasy you don't understand it. Yes it is obviously a fantasy. But there's a much higher quality to it than just smashing fantasy elements into one pot. I've seen games do that. Have you ever played Aion? Where they had Dinosaurs giant pianos and people flying around on wings in a floating city all with no real reason other than it's magic all within five feet from one another? Yeah Dinosaurs are cool and I'm sure people would love an epic giant piano. But just mashing it together because it's epic does not make art.

- As for the arrow buffs confirmed by the dev. They're no different than the buffs other classes have other than maybe their specific effect and timing. They all enter the battlefield with a click of your ability bar the same as all the others.

I don't think XIV is masquerading as art. Gameplay is the primary focus, and scavenging ammo isn't a fun part of that. Sure I'll do it because I have to do it, but that doesn't add to the class at all.

[Lyndis]

I don't think XIV is masquerading as art.

if that's true square enix is losing its touch.

[Rokien]

I don't think XIV is masquerading as art. Gameplay is the primary focus, and scavenging ammo isn't a fun part of that. Sure I'll do it because I have to do it, but that doesn't add to the class at all.

You are kidding right, you don't consider this art? That has to be the biggest joke ever!