Skill based gameplay

[Rogue]

I was thinking about where the fundamentals of the gameplay are headed, especially since PVP looks to be making a big impact.

from the sounds of it SE is aiming more towards a skill based game more than a numbers or spreadsheet type gameplay which i think going away from what FF is traditionally. is that a good or bad thing?

with the current set of abilitys how do you see PVP playing out?

1. if it was more skill based what kind of dynamics constitute skill based gameplay?

personally i think tera is a perfect example, i would love to be able to use dragoons evasive jump on a low cooldown to dodge aoe attacks.

2. if its a numbers game then obviously things like stats and gear play a larger role... will we see two blm's in pvp just spaming their best nukes and whoever wins is the person with the best gear?

a mix of both?

[AmyNeudaiz]

I hope its a mix of both, personally.

[Rau]

I see this thread getting totally derailed because its going to turn into a "Why FFXIV is not Guild Wars 2" thread.

[Rogue]

I see this thread getting totally derailed because its going to turn into a "Why FFXIV is not Guild Wars 2" thread.

yeh lol, i hesitated in mentioning tera but i thought it was such a good example.

[Kailea_Nagisa]

The main problem is that FFXIV is one type of RPG style, and it seems some people want a different one. FFXIV is more of the "point and click" style of strategy game play, even if using a gamepad. Everything in the fight takes time, and is planned out.
What some seem to want it a more action styled battle system, like Guildwars 2 or Tera. Those types of battles are similar to "point and clicks" but ad a little bit of dynamic evasion to the fights.
Then you have a third type, more along the lines of Phantasy Star Online/Universe or Monster Hunter. These games are pure action, everything in the fight is dynamic and ever changing every second.

The main issue here is that FFXIV is a point and click style, and many want a mic or pure action style, and that is just not what the game is.

[Orca]

The main problem is that FFXIV is one type of RPG style, and it seems some people want a different one. FFXIV is more of the "point and click" style of strategy game play, even if using a gamepad. Everything in the fight takes time, and is planned out.
What some seem to want it a more action styled battle system, like Guildwars 2 or Tera. Those types of battles are similar to "point and clicks" but ad a little bit of dynamic evasion to the fights.
Then you have a third type, more along the lines of Phantasy Star Online/Universe or Monster Hunter. These games are pure action, everything in the fight is dynamic and ever changing every second.

The main issue here is that FFXIV is a point and click style, and many want a mic or pure action style, and that is just not what the game is.

Even though its not true action, it still wants you to dodge stuff the way true action MMOs do. And not just for bosses, its everywhere, even normal field mobs give you a chance to run back, forwards, left or right to dodge something. We have no gameplay tools for doing that, we just kinda stomp about clumsily, waving our weapons in the air.

TERA knew what it wanted to be, so every class has adjusted combat speed depending on their fighting range, visual tells for every move you need to dodge, and every class has a way of dodging, teleporting or blocking these attacks on reaction. The reason is because if theyre gonna make you have to dodge something so often, they want it to be as fluid and enjoyable as possible. It could just be me, but i enjoyed doing a forward roll through a mob to dodge his frontal attack, far more than i do taking off target lock and just slowly staggering in a direction. I also loved their shield tanks reaction blocking, because it made them such a fortress, they took every hit on the nose and very few things had them dropping shield to turn tail and run.

I'm definitley not saying FFXIV should be TERA or turn to true action combat, mind you. Simply that if youre going to have us dodge stuff so often, itd be nice to see some style. =D Saying that though, i dont believe this is something they would ever do, i think too much groundwork has been done. XIV is an unusual combination of different aspects of MMO battle and to go in one direction would mean forsaking aspects of others.

[Rogue]

Even though its not true action, it still wants you to dodge stuff the way true action MMOs do. And not just for bosses, its everywhere, even normal field mobs give you a chance to run back, forwards, left or right to dodge something. We have no gameplay tools for doing that, we just kinda stomp about clumsily, waving our weapons in the air.

TERA knew what it wanted to be, so every class has adjusted combat speed depending on their fighting range, visual tells for every move you need to dodge, and every class has a way of dodging, teleporting or blocking these attacks on reaction. The reason is because if theyre gonna make you have to dodge something so often, they want it to be as fluid and enjoyable as possible. It could just be me, but i enjoyed doing a forward roll through a mob to dodge his frontal attack, far more than i do taking off target lock and just slowly staggering in a direction. I also loved their shield tanks reaction blocking, because it made them such a fortress, they took every hit on the nose and very few things had them dropping shield to turn tail and run.

I'm definitley not saying FFXIV should be TERA or turn to true action combat, mind you. Simply that if youre going to have us dodge stuff so often, itd be nice to see some style. =D Saying that though, i dont believe this is something they would ever do, i think too much groundwork has been done. XIV is an unusual combination of different aspects of MMO battle and to go in one direction would mean forsaking aspects of others.

this is kind of the way i see it, we are essentially having to dodge like you say by "walking" around, i cant help but think it would add so much style to the game to have dodge abilitys on low cooldowns.

sure there are abilitys like featherfoot etc, but there like 3-4 abilitys that do essentially the same thing, except their all on kind of long cooldowns, and all of them beside sentinal dont have any effect besides in most cases a boss mobs auto attack.

[darkm0d]

As a healer in TERA I loved how dynamic fights could be. FF has it's perks, but I still feel like ultimately it's still "cure target 1, cure target 2, repeat"

FF could learn a lot from TERA, but I still know they should, and will keep it true to it's brand.

[Felis]

We have no gameplay tools for doing that, we just kinda stomp about clumsily, waving our weapons in the air.

We have. Example: If a Dodo use his Sleep AoE, run behind him in the right moment to dodge it. Keep target-lock off

[Shougun]

We have. Example: If a Dodo use his Sleep AoE, run behind him in the right moment to dodge it. Keep target-lock off

I like this kind of stuff SE has done before, but I'm pretty sure they use a weird timer then an actual conal detection - or at least detect before the breath has finished.

Since you can get sleeped even if you went behind (obviously you have to wait a second instead of going immediately but I dont like getting hit by things I didn't appear to get hit by).

I'd like to see a roll directional feature in gameplay, double tap a direction (keyboard) and you can quickly doge in that direction. Obviously with a sort of cooldown so you dont have it being spammed making fights a bunch of rammus's running about.

I think its funny people think of FF needing to have a slowed down combat style - because if you've ever watched their cinimetics they have always toted a fast paced very dynamic combat style.


All that being said, It would be very scary to test out a entirely dynamic combat system on FFXIV. Since a lot of players here right now dont want that kind of thing, and they (SE) have never done it before.