Atomos = Inflation...

[Almalexia]

It's not entirely theoretical. I actually tested one minute of purchasing and extrapolated the results. I don't know how 1 minute is different from 25, except for more key mashing. Now that the gold rush is over, I'm not about to spend 12,000 seals on something worth 1g just to make my point; I'm using a more practical approach.

The seal cap is 50,000. At the rate I described, it would take about 2 hours to convert your entire stash of seals (to 4.1M gil). Two hours is the length two average music albums, or one of many longer-then-average films. If you use my technique, you only need one hand tapping the enter key, which amounts to just as much work as spamming a craft. How is it hard to believe people can do this when there are lv.50 crafters all over the place?

I derived the 12k seal value from the over-aspected cluster rush. You can hit Atomos four times in one cycle for a total of four clusters. 3000 x 4 = 12000. You stand to earn more through crystals, of course, but I was trying to illustrate how much you would earn in just one cycle even if you were terribly unlucky.

13k seals would be, like, an extra 1.3 minutes added. Closer to 25 minutes for 1.08M total.

[Azmar]

You are pulling numbers out of thin air, you forget about losing focus, finger cramps, getting bored. The fact that you didn't actually do it, you have no clue how long it takes. 2 hours will get you no where near 50k gc turn around. You also forget the amount of time it takes to npc them. In the end no one did it, except the people that did math, they just did math and QQ.

[Shougun]

You are pulling numbers out of thin air, you forget about losing focus, finger cramps, getting bored. The fact that you didn't actually do it, you have no clue how long it takes. 2 hours will get you no where near 50k gc turn around. You also forget the amount of time it takes to npc them. In the end no one did it, except the people that did math, they just did math and QQ.

I went faster then her(his?) numbers for 1 hour - and I have below normal dedication. I think you are severely underestimating the gaming community. (also did it again slower watching movies, but thats a really shitty rate )

You dont even have the slightest idea what hardcore means apparently.

- that is just discluding the cheaters whom used shifts of family/friends or botted.

[Almalexia]

I did do it. Dozens of people did on every server.

I am not pulling anything out of thin air. 37 transactions in one minute is a sample I gathered with my own hands and my own seals. I'm using math now because nobody is going to watch a 2-hour youtube of me sitting at an NPC counter, and I'm not wasting 50,000 seals for 50,000 gil to prove something no longer useful to anyone outside this thread.

The amount of time it takes to NPC drops is simply (<)2s per transaction times the number of stacks purchased. In the case of 12,000 seals, 8000 drops = 81 stacks. (<)2s x 81 = 162 seconds, or ~2.4 minutes. I already accounted for NPC transactions above:

So, actually, 2s per transaction is an over-estimation. It takes less than that. Altogether, it would take less than 25 minutes to convert 12,000 seals into 8000 drops into 1M gil.

25 minutes includes seal exchange as well as vendoring. And, I suppose, the trivial time it takes to teleport from the GC hall to the nearest vendor. Sorry if that was unclear.

The only thing I'm trying to do in this thread is dispute this guy's claim:

The reason this got so popular though is that even though the Gil-Per-hour with Atomos was actually less than more lucrative methods,

The truth is that there was no more lucrative activity than Atomos @ 12k seals/hour. Maybe people did get carpal tunnel or take a break while trading seals.

So what?

People take a break trading seals as much as they could take a break crafting or gathering or SBing or farming or doing leves or melding items or playing the market or buying gil or whatever you super-cool, anti-Atomos folks do to make so much money. Atomos, however, required no initial investment to profit, had 0 risk, instant return (no market ward delay), no taxation, and provably (actually and mathematically) generated gil at a rate faster than any other legitimate method in FFXIV as of September 2012 that I know of.

Even accounting for weary hands or break time in all other things, Atomos still makes more money. You cannot point to a single thing that makes 1M in liquid gil guaranteed every hour.

I'm at a loss of how I can make this any more persuasive. People really underestimate just how much of a gil fountain Atomos was, and that's unfortunate for everyone but, well, the people who played in the fountain.

[Matsume]

Atomos, however, required no initial investment to profit, had 0 risk, instant return (no market ward delay), no taxation, and provably (actually and mathematically) generated gil at a rate faster than any other legitimate method in FFXIV as of September 2012 that I know of.

Even accounting for weary hands or break time in all other things, Atomos still makes more money. You cannot point to a single thing that makes 1M in liquid gil guaranteed every hour.

I'm at a loss of how I can make this any more persuasive. People really underestimate just how much of a gil fountain Atomos was, and that's unfortunate for everyone but, well, the people who played in the fountain.

Ironic how SE overlooks the addition of an exploit that generates massive amounts of npc gil on the eve of ARR gil redenomination... Sounds like they shot themselves in the foot right proper with that oversight.

[Applesnap]

It's unfortunate though; it really is on a broad spectrum. Most people are now walking around in full GC gear, and whilst this raises the general equipment standard of the playerbase, like someone else mentioned, it directly hits sales of weapons, armour and accessories. The misinformed view that all GC gear is the best for each slot rises, people stop wanting to learn how to do their jobs in favour of following the masses in gear choices.

I've heard people on other linkshells brag about how they've made 100m+ on this event and it's actually quite sad. With that I saw a shift in attitude, almost a sense of superiority. Inflation is going to mean sellers raise prices as people who've amassed gil from Atomos will just throw money at whatever they want, and prices will keep rising.

I'm not against the event for the most part and I've gotten seals from it, which is nice. It's the rapid influx of gil that I really disagree with. Could have done it myself like some others posting here, but I'm not at all interested in amassing a huge pile of gil just because I can. To me, there are more important things in this game.

I really wish SE had thought the event through better before they implemented it.

[Matsume]

It's unfortunate though; it really is on a broad spectrum. Most people are now walking around in full GC gear, and whilst this raises the general equipment standard of the playerbase, like someone else mentioned, it directly hits sales of weapons, armour and accessories. The misinformed view that all GC gear is the best for each slot rises, people stop wanting to learn how to do their jobs in favour of following the masses in gear choices.

I've heard people on other linkshells brag about how they've made 100m+ on this event and it's actually quite sad. With that I saw a shift in attitude, almost a sense of superiority. Inflation is going to mean sellers raise prices as people who've amassed gil from Atomos will just throw money at whatever they want, and prices will keep rising.

I'm not against the event for the most part and I've gotten seals from it, which is nice. It's the rapid influx of gil that I really disagree with. Could have done it myself like some others posting here, but I'm not at all interested in amassing a huge pile of gil just because I can. To me, there are more important things in this game.

I really wish SE had thought the event through better before they implemented it.

Not only that but those two points you bring up act synergystically upon each other. The people who made the most gil out of the exploit also bought all the GC gear. Having that GC gear they have even less reason and need to spend the money they made on crafted gear. So they just sit on huge piles of gil waiting for the arr redenomination. Whatver.

[Preypacer]

Not only that but those two points you bring up act synergystically upon each other. The people who made the most gil out of the exploit also bought all the GC gear. Having that GC gear they have even less reason and need to spend the money they made on crafted gear. So they just sit on huge piles of gil waiting for the arr redenomination. Whatver.

Not necessarily so.

There are people, believe it or not, who still have other classes/jobs to level. I'm going to be leveling THM. I'm still going to be buying gear for that class - and eventually for others - from the Wards.

You're forgetting something else, though, that kinda shoots a hole in your theory/argument. NM Drops. You can get a good amount of good gear from NMs around Eorzea. I almost entirely geared up my LNC and PGL in that gear for many levels, hence not buying anything from the Ward at all, either. There wasn't much I had to buy during that time.

Further, if someone was so determined - or perhaps didn't have the money coming in to buy stuff outright - they could well have grinded out quests/missions for the GC and gotten their gear that way. That also would result in people not spending money in the wards.

And there are other examples. People leveled the classes themself, crafted their own gear and didn't need to buy it off wards. People had others in their LSs crafting the gear and selling it to them for extremely cheap, or for nothing at all.

It's all well and easy to throw the whole thing at the feet of SE with Atomos. Truth is, though, there are, and always have been myriad ways that people could get good gear without having to buy from the Wards. It's a bit disingenuous to say "it's all Atomos".

It's just like with the inflation thing. People are all eager to point at Atomos and say "that event is causing inflation! Prices are ridiculous!" Yet I can clearly remember wanting to buy lower level gear for a new class some months back and not being able to afford even level 10-ish stuff, 'cause it was all in the 100,000s. I couldn't afford to buy any of it and was running around in lowbie gear for upwards of 20 levels, until I got into range of using NM gear. When I posted on the forums about it, no one seemed to think it was a big deal. Strange how it's a huge issue now.

[Matsume]

Not necessarily so.

There are people, believe it or not, who still have other classes/jobs to level. I'm going to be leveling THM. I'm still going to be buying gear for that class - and eventually for others - from the Wards.

I am not in the position to know the validity of this next statement but based on my own experience I udnerstand that a great number of players just powerleveled most of their DoM/DoW classes to 50 forgoing gear altogether.

You're forgetting something else, though, that kinda shoots a hole in your theory/argument. NM Drops. You can get a good amount of good gear from NMs around Eorzea. I almost entirely geared up my LNC and PGL in that gear for many levels, hence not buying anything from the Ward at all, either. There wasn't much I had to buy during that time.

Further, if someone was so determined - or perhaps didn't have the money coming in to buy stuff outright - they could well have grinded out quests/missions for the GC and gotten their gear that way. That also would result in people not spending money in the wards.

And there are other examples. People leveled the classes themself, crafted their own gear and didn't need to buy it off wards. People had others in their LSs crafting the gear and selling it to them for extremely cheap, or for nothing at all.

Kinda? Are you kidding me? Those three "counter arguments" (if you could call them that) don't shoot a whole in my theory/argument, they only reinforce them. I am one of those players, matter of fact, that refused to buy ridculously over priced market ward gears. After lvling my first lvl 50 I went around all of eorzea collecting every NM drop, and thus had no more reason to acquire gear for my other DoM/DoW classes by means of market wards.

It's all well and easy to throw the whole thing at the feet of SE with Atomos. Truth is, though, there are, and always have been myriad ways that people could get good gear without having to buy from the Wards. It's a bit disingenuous to say "it's all Atomos".

It's all well and easy to throw quotes on both sides of any stupid phrase and put words in other peoples mouth but not once did I say "it's all Atomos" matter of fact, never did I say such a stupid, ignorant remark. Do you even read? Check what I wrote, then reread it, then think about what a carefully constructed comment is before posting blasphemous nonsense like this.

What I distincly said is:

1) it's ironic that SE overlooks an exploit that generates massive amounts of gil on the eve of a gil redenomination
2) the massive seals and gil generated by this exploit act synergystically on each other enabling people to purchase very good gear (gc gear) without gil thus reducing the need for them to spend gil on gear while simultaneously enriching those very players

Both facts, and for that matter the reasons you mentioned above also act synergystically to discourage players from buying GEAR on the market wards. No where did i say this was a bad thing did I? I'm just here to present the facts not pass judgement.

It's just like with the inflation thing. People are all eager to point at Atomos and say "that event is causing inflation! Prices are ridiculous!" Yet I can clearly remember wanting to buy lower level gear for a new class some months back and not being able to afford even level 10-ish stuff, 'cause it was all in the 100,000s. I couldn't afford to buy any of it and was running around in lowbie gear for upwards of 20 levels, until I got into range of using NM gear. When I posted on the forums about it, no one seemed to think it was a big deal. Strange how it's a huge issue now.

Oh that inflation thing? I am willing to bet money that exagerated prices on lower level items such as the ones you mention are not caused by inflation (increase in money supply) but more by human greed. Let me explain with a personal example.

Yesterday I entered the Uldah Wards in search of a lvl 18 main hand goldsmithing tool to skillup my lvl 18 goldsmith. There were none up for sale. So I though, that's okay I'll just buy one of those level 8 mainhand's instead, thankfully there was 1 up for sale. Guess how much it was priced at? 200,000 Gil. Why do you think that is? Because the raw materials cost 180,000gil? Or because some greedy player wants to net 195,000 gil profit on a low level item? I lean towards the latter.

That inflation thing concerns the upper tier items. Specifically materia. The reason Atomos has contributed to such inflation is the fact that hte profits being generated came from an npc. Let me spell it out for you. Player A buys 99 stacks of xtals for 1.4mil from Player B and resells via loopholes to an npc those same xtals for 2mil gil. Thats 500K new gil generated with none leaving the economy creating massive wealth for both Player A and B whom are now willing to pay much more for HQ3 Tier 4 Materia X because they have easy money.

My friend made 10mil gil a day doing this. There were DOZENS of peopel in all of the guilds doing this for what? 10 days straight? How many billions of gil were poured into the economy because of this?

By the way, there are other such exploits that still do and have always existed. Nuff said.