[dev1008] About Jumping

[gifthorse]

Well that post was focused more on how XIV would benefit from other features being implemented in place of jump. It's not a platformer style game just in how it handles. It's a bit of an opinion yes but the basis for it is tangible. The game is just a lot slower paced. Rather then implement jump, implement strategy, tactics, cross-class combos, variety in combat, etc. Jumping wouldn't add near as much depth to a game like XIV as it would other mmos like WoW, just on the basis of how it handles and plays.

Now about exploration, this definitely harkens back to my first post. XIV is, relative to other mmos, closed. High cliffs that aren't scalable and are bordered by invisible walls, narrow paths, etc. are all aspects of the game. The world is, in the very way it was designed, confined. I used this analogy earlier but it'd be like jumping in a box. What good is the ability to jump if jumping takes you nowhere new? Nowhere you couldn't get without jumping? At best it provides shortcuts but that's not exactly exploring. I mean the only reason you can call jumping, in my mind anyways, a form of exploration in other games is because the only movement barrier is gravity, there are no "real" invisible walls holding you in. If you want to cliff dive into the ocean you can. In XIV, you can't and to allow that would require some hefty reworking of the game's zones.

I'm not saying jumping wouldn't mesh with the game because of my own idea of how the game "should" be, but on the basis of how it feels and maintaining that consistency. I'm not saying we turn it into "that" kind of game, but that it was from the get go intended to be that way and thus isn't built with jumping considered. I know people don't like the argument "It wasn't meant to have jump," but it's entirely true and shows up a lot in the way the game is designed. To have it mean anything at all in the game the game would need to be redesigned so that jumping meant something.

The style of dress for this party is formal, you can't show up in jeans and expect to fit in. D:

Well I can certainly see that the game was designed around a very linear experience. We are ushered from place to place in a very closed world. In order for the kind of exploration I talked of, things would have to be opened up a bit. The illlusion of freedom, and possibilities for exploration, all of which aren't presently in the game, would need to be added in order to make jumping sensical.

While this may sound a tall order for a game already released, there has already been talk of redeveloping zones, so changing some things to facilitate jumping isn't out of the realms of possibility. Or in any case, the game is free to move in new directions from here on out if it so chooses given that the direction it is currently taking is said by most to be an undesirable one.

With that said, a complete overhaul of the zones (or new zones) is not really needed to give impetus to the idea of jumping, as there are already areas within the game where jumping would benefit the player. There are areas which are only slightly out of reach where jumping would allow us to get to.

Of course the argument really comes down to: are platforming elements compatible with an MMORPG, and a Final Fantasy MMORPG at that? Well, to answer that, before just appealing to the tradition of MMORPGS, I think it pays to judge the idea on its own merits.

If you consider FFXI, most dungeon-type zones had treasure chests in them. To include something of that sort in FFXIV, but to place the chests in difficult-to-reach corners of the zones would add an element of exploration and discovery to the game as yet unheard of. So this is one example where jumping improves upon a typical feature of an MMO. I mean, treasure hunting in FFXI was quite a lucrative passtime for thiefs, but running around in circles waiting for chests to spawn isn't exactly a fair representation of treasure hunting. So not only would jumping add to the realism of the game in some respects, but such platforming elements would add more enjoyment to this specific activity and would also make it more of a risk/reward situation.

Having secret areas with rewards in them other than coffers is also a possibility. For example, how about areas with rare NMs, entranceways to new zones and instances, shortcuts? Jumping adds a host of opportunities that a game without it can't really imitate. The reward of finding and getting to such places is reduced to nothing when anyone can just walk there.

You can't hide anything in a game world where the only method of getting anywhere is walking. To give the game world more depth, it needs secrets. And currently it feels like there are none, and it can't even create any without locking out players by resorting to even more linear methods, locked doors etc.

If you treat this game as a beta, then jumping is something they could keep in mind for future content.

Okay, Gifthorse. I don't think you should write in this thread anymore. You have absolutely no reasoning behind your beliefs on why a manual jump adds depth. Let's go ahead and use your model of a flat narrow tunnel. How would jumping help that tunnel become more in depth as far as exploration concerns? Let's say that you have to jump now in order to scale the obstacles. Isn't that still a linear path considering you're coming from Point A and trying to get to Point B?

There are far more effective means to add a sense of exploration to this game that I have mentioned before. (In case you forgot. Climbing, Swimming, and maybe Flying.....Maybe Flying...) Jumping adds absolutely no depth like you seem to think. Again I challenge you to list five examples of how jump would be useful as a manual action....I remember you told me when having to jump a gap....That's one.....Four more!

And you're right. "If the only reason it is to be implemented is to clear certain obstacles, then climbing would be more aesthetically pleasing anyway" Couldn't agree with you more on this point of your post.

Also.....Just throwing it in there.......Jump wasn't used in FFXI and it never once was brought up to my knowledge. It was still a successful game even though they didn't add this feature...Care to explain?

I don't think I can do much more beyond reiterate my points which you are ignoring anyway, so I probably won't be posting here anymore. It's futile if you just ignore everything I say just so you can have the last word.

A path like the one i mentioned is a metaphor for the way zones are developed in FFXIV. At some point, a developer obviously has to develop the content to give jumping meaning. So I'm not saying getting "from point A to point B" with jumping is somehow mystically superior. I'm just saying, if you have one axis of motion, then that limits the amount of interesting "point Bs" you can have.

And I agree with all those other types of movements. Climbing and swimming are good too, along with flying.

To jump a gap is the only thing jumping can ever do in terms of exploration. The point isn't that it can do more than one thing, it's the fact that it opens up the game-world design for more interesting areas; areas that are more difficult to travel to than those currently in the game. And also, the difficulty in getting to such places isn't defined by the level of the mobs in the way.