[dev1008] About Jumping

[Focant]

The forums are a bit hard to follow right now, so I think I'll use this thread as a breaking in point. D:

I haven't read pretty much any of this thread, it's just far too long to do that, so if I cover old information please forgive me!

Jumping is definitely a strange topic and it amazes me how much people seem to want it implemented. As of yet I haven't seen any compelling arguments supporting it. At most it seems to span the territory of "mmo standard" and "solution to knee high walls," the last of which isn't a problem born out of a lack of jumping by any means. Firstly, though jumping is considered an mmo standard these days, XIV isn't really the same as a lot of the mainstream mmos out there as far as gameplay and style of play goes. XIV, like XI, doesn't have a strong emphasis on quick, rapid movements and the terrain of the game is a bit more sculpted, for lack of a better word. Gameplay wise there's little to nothing to really gain from implementing a jump feature. At most it creates a limited degree of vertical movement which, personally, I don't believe constitutes freedom and seems more like a gimmick. Other games benefit from jumping because they were designed with it in mind. XIV isn't that kind of game. There's no real reason to jump, no high cliffs to fall from, no fences to vault (there are fences but none worth jumping D: ), and in general the game has little use for it. Sure, you could jump to scale those nasty knee-high barriers, but honestly it'd be far easier to allow scaling of it while running. There are already small cliffs that you can climb that are far higher than some of the impassable ones. It's just a matter of improving the invisible barriers and terrain hang ups. Also, XIV isn't as open as some other mmos out there, the zones are well defined and high cliffs surround the navigable areas. Ultimately it'd be like jumping in a closed box. Sure you can move up and down a little but it's not like it does anything but tire you out.

Also, I see the word "realism" tossed around a lot and I have to say that's a bit of a misnomer. It's not really about realism but about aesthetics and flow. If you consider how XIV, as well as XI, feel when played, how they handle, it's readily apparent they have a much more weighted and dense feel to them. This is far from a bad thing and is actually one of the things I like about the two games. Keeping that in mind though, imagine for a moment how jumping would look, how it would feel in the game. Taking into account your character's run speed, the way they move when taking corners or changing direction, imagine them jumping in as consistent a style as you can. It's not about the realism of the jump but about how it meshes with already existing animations and movement. I don't know about you all but when I think of it I, at most, see a small bound, a hop. Far from anything you'd see in other games and almost more of an emote than an actual gameplay function.

I could probably go on but I won't as this is getting a bit long winded already. The takeaway message though is that jumping is a shortsighted "solution" to problems best remedied by tweaking other aspects of the game. It also would serve only as, essentially, an emote if they wanted to keep the animation consistent with the aesthetics of the game. It wouldn't have any gameplay purpose beyond anything scripted, like a specific "jump" point in game that automatically makes the action for you. I mean, ultimately, I think a jump emote would be fine, something just to look fanciful, but a lot of people are arguing this from a gameplay standpoint, an argument which this feature has no ground to stand on.

[Jennestia]

This is horribly OT but.. anyway, Skyrant are you collecting horrible grammar posts in your signature section? Lol

First 1 is a famous post from XI's early days.

[Turtle]

I am very appose to the idea of jumping for the most part. The only FF I have seen it work in is FFXIII. If FFXIV were to incorporate something along those lines I would be fine with it. Short of that free-jump would be terrible. It's something this game doesn't need. I also feel that even if that were a possibility, that thier are many other things that should come far before a jump feature. Such as changing the current bland animation style of abilities, fixing the armoury system and working out the kinks in our class system. That is my personal opinion.

[Rokien]

I am very appose to the idea of jumping for the most part. The only FF I have seen it work in is FFXIII. If FFXIV were to incorporate something along those lines I would be fine with it. Short of that free-jump would be terrible. It's something this game doesn't need. I also feel that even if that were a possibility, that thier are many other things that should come far before a jump feature. Such as changing the current bland animation style of abilities, fixing the armoury system and working out the kinks in our class system. That is my personal opinion.

Dear everyone whom may read,
Mr. T(aka: TURTLE) makes a very valid point here. So open your eyes and ears to the wonderful words that Mr. T has to offer. He is Mr. T, The Boss.
Love yours truly,
Rokien

[Nephera]

Dear everyone whom may read,
Mr. T(aka: TURTLE) makes a very valid point here. So open your eyes and ears to the wonderful words that Mr. T has to offer. He is Mr. T, The Boss.
Love yours truly,
Rokien

What? He just said free jump would be terrible without even saying why.

[Seif]

SE stop being a pu¤¤y about new features and take some god damn artistic authorship of your work!

You said jump now JUMP!

[Maximus]

Never needed the ability to jump in FFXI (excluding Drgs in battle), so do not need it in FFXIV. Would kill the feel of exploration and make guildleve unnecessary short in the time they take to complete. FFXIII for me worked simply because it added something different to the scenery and to the fact you were going in the same direction most of the time (so more reason to hit a button to interact with the scenery).

Although saying that when you could swim short distances in FFX I was briefly disappointed there was no option to swim in FFXI. It'll pass.

[Malakhim]

The forums are a bit hard to follow right now, so I think I'll use this thread as a breaking in point. D:

I haven't read pretty much any of this thread, it's just far too long to do that, so if I cover old information please forgive me!

Jumping is definitely a strange topic and it amazes me how much people seem to want it implemented. As of yet I haven't seen any compelling arguments supporting it. At most it seems to span the territory of "mmo standard" and "solution to knee high walls," the last of which isn't a problem born out of a lack of jumping by any means. Firstly, though jumping is considered an mmo standard these days, XIV isn't really the same as a lot of the mainstream mmos out there as far as gameplay and style of play goes. XIV, like XI, doesn't have a strong emphasis on quick, rapid movements and the terrain of the game is a bit more sculpted, for lack of a better word. Gameplay wise there's little to nothing to really gain from implementing a jump feature. At most it creates a limited degree of vertical movement which, personally, I don't believe constitutes freedom and seems more like a gimmick. Other games benefit from jumping because they were designed with it in mind. XIV isn't that kind of game. There's no real reason to jump, no high cliffs to fall from, no fences to vault (there are fences but none worth jumping D: ), and in general the game has little use for it. Sure, you could jump to scale those nasty knee-high barriers, but honestly it'd be far easier to allow scaling of it while running. There are already small cliffs that you can climb that are far higher than some of the impassable ones. It's just a matter of improving the invisible barriers and terrain hang ups. Also, XIV isn't as open as some other mmos out there, the zones are well defined and high cliffs surround the navigable areas. Ultimately it'd be like jumping in a closed box. Sure you can move up and down a little but it's not like it does anything but tire you out.

Also, I see the word "realism" tossed around a lot and I have to say that's a bit of a misnomer. It's not really about realism but about aesthetics and flow. If you consider how XIV, as well as XI, feel when played, how they handle, it's readily apparent they have a much more weighted and dense feel to them. This is far from a bad thing and is actually one of the things I like about the two games. Keeping that in mind though, imagine for a moment how jumping would look, how it would feel in the game. Taking into account your character's run speed, the way they move when taking corners or changing direction, imagine them jumping in as consistent a style as you can. It's not about the realism of the jump but about how it meshes with already existing animations and movement. I don't know about you all but when I think of it I, at most, see a small bound, a hop. Far from anything you'd see in other games and almost more of an emote than an actual gameplay function.

I could probably go on but I won't as this is getting a bit long winded already. The takeaway message though is that jumping is a shortsighted "solution" to problems best remedied by tweaking other aspects of the game. It also would serve only as, essentially, an emote if they wanted to keep the animation consistent with the aesthetics of the game. It wouldn't have any gameplay purpose beyond anything scripted, like a specific "jump" point in game that automatically makes the action for you. I mean, ultimately, I think a jump emote would be fine, something just to look fanciful, but a lot of people are arguing this from a gameplay standpoint, an argument which this feature has no ground to stand on.

You're not really late to the party as nobody has yet to offer a particularly compelling reason as to why jumping should be included that can't be solved by fixing another issue(mainly collision and better area design). Yoshi has even said as much that he would appreciate it if players could separate jumping from collision earlier in the thread.

I'm not saying a compelling argument CAN'T be given. I'm just saying that in nearly 60 pages not one has been presented other than the aforementioned "it's in other MMOs!" and "wah I wants teh jump wah!(paraphrasing). It's pretty insulting that people on the jump side of the fence automatically assumes that anyone who isn't for it is a stubborn dinosaur, when all that really needs to be presented is a situation that can't be helped without including a jump as per their vision.

Anyway, excellent post.

[Phanraven]

Phanraven would not like having to jump when the user presses a key.

[Skyrant_Kangaroomouse]

This is horribly OT but.. anyway, Skyrant are you collecting horrible grammar posts in your signature section? Lol

First 1 is a famous post from XI's early days.

What Jennestia said (LINKY).

As a Lalafell, I am not amused by the thought of jumping to conclusions; beeing afraid of heights and all. You however should not be too worried, you always land on your paws anyways.

PS: FB request sent