[dev1008] About Jumping

[Aldwin]

Theres a simple solution to jumping that would please everyone, context sensative jumping, meaning you can only jump when and where the game tells you that you can. For instance if you are standing by a small ledge an icon map appear on screen indicating that you can jump down.

I personally have been voting for a jump. I don't think its by far the most important issue the game has right now, but it seems the most popular topic on the forums.

But this idea to me (context sensative jumping) would be worse than having no jump at all. Why? I want to be controlling my character, not clicking yes or no, or opening up a menu to initiate the action ( try /sit, whose bright idea was it to add an icon popup after sitting so you can open your main menu, then choose to stand?)

I have read so many of these posts, but one thing I don't understand. The people wanting jump, right now can't jump in the game. The people against, can't jump either. If they did add a jump, the people wanting it, could jump. The people against it, woudn't have to.

[Abriael]

I personally have been voting for a jump. I don't think its by far the most important issue the game has right now, but it seems the most popular topic on the forums.

But this idea to me (context sensative jumping) would be worse than having no jump at all. Why? I want to be controlling my character, not clicking yes or no, or opening up a menu to initiate the action ( try /sit, whose bright idea was it to add an icon popup after sitting so you can open your main menu, then choose to stand?)

I have read so many of these posts, but one thing I don't understand. The people wanting jump, right now can't jump in the game. The people against, can't jump either. If they did add a jump, the people wanting it, could jump. The people against it, woudn't have to.

The people against it would still be on the receiving end of the many ways to abuse jumping that are present in games that inclue it.

Context sensitive jumping doesn't necessitate clicking yes/no, or opening a menu. It can simply be initiated by walking to a certain area, or against a ledge. How is less "control" (you decide to walk there, the game doesn't walk you there against your will) than walking there and pressing a key to manually jump?

[Aldwin]

The people against it would still be on the receiving end of the many ways to abuse jumping that are present in games that inclue it.

Context sensitive jumping doesn't necessitate clicking yes/no, or opening a menu. It can simply be initiated by walking to a certain area, or against a ledge. How is less "control" (you decide to walk there, the game doesn't walk you there against your will) than walking there and pressing a key to manually jump?

Which cliffs, rocks, ledges, docks, fences ect.. exactly would you be able to "auto-jump" off of and which would you not? My thought process when I'm playing the game, and maybe I'm alone amidst the people wanting jump with this, I see an object, I might be able to jump it, if its he right height. I see a cliff, I can jump off it. Even if there's a bottom below I can't see with distant drawing turned on. With context sensitive jumping, who knows where I could jump and where I can't. That for me is the main reason. I want to feel in control.

If so many are afraid of seeing others jumping around, as if that in some way mocks you in game (I'm sorry for you if it does), than forget the whole idea and lets move on. I played xi for 6 years, without a jump. Sure there was plenty of times I wish the game had it, but I managed without it.

I would like a jump, but this feature alone isn't going to decide whether I will continue to play the game. If a jump were added, I want it under my control.

[Abriael]

Which cliffs, rocks, ledges, docks, fences ect.. exactly would you be able to "auto-jump" off of and which would you not? My thought process when I'm playing the game, and maybe I'm alone amidst the people wanting jump with this, I see an object, I might be able to jump it, if its he right height. I see a cliff, I can jump off it. Even if there's a bottom below I can't see with distant drawing turned on. With context sensitive jumping, who knows where I could jump and where I can't. That for me is the main reason. I want to feel in control.

If so many are afraid of seeing others jumping around, as if that in some way mocks you in game (I'm sorry for you if it does), than forget the whole idea and lets move on. I played xi for 6 years, without a jump. Sure there was plenty of times I wish the game had it, but I managed without it.

I would like a jump, but this feature alone isn't going to decide whether I will continue to play the game. If a jump were added, I want it under my control.

It's not a matter of mocking. It's a matter of visuals. I wouldn't necessarily feel "mocked" if it started to rain green pigs with pink polka dots, but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be pleased by the visuals.

There are several ways to make context sensitive jumping visually detectable, one has been implemented to a very nice effect in Final Fantasy XIII (with very nice animations by the way, that are way, way better than the horrible, generic, and most of the time context inappropriate generic jump animation you see in many MMOs).

Context sensitive jumping can be applied to basically every area that you listed. Even more, it can be applied to MORE areas than generic jumping. Just to make an example, if you find a tall cliff (taller than your character), you can't get over it with a generic jump.
With a context sensitive jump, your character can (for instance) grab the ledge and pull himself up, or sommersault over the ledge, or many other solutions paired with the proper animation related to the context.

The only thing generic jumping is "superior" for, is to randomly jump around where there's no reason or feature to jump. Which IMHO, can and should stay out of the game.

Why make it so you can walk around? Why not just choose a point on your map, and if the game allows you to move in that direction, it does so for you? You see an enemy, you choose to attack it. Your character automatically walks over there and engages. You could even take it a step further and say you just watch the outcome, without any interactive input from yourself at all.

There will always be a degree of automation in MMORPG games (at least until someone decides to implement some kinect-like crap). Don't kid yourself thinking that pressing one more key puts you that much more "in control"

[Malakhim]

I've probably missed the boat, but has anyone touched on the potential pros and cons of allowing jumping(and yes, "immersion breaking" is a perfectly valid reason) yet?

It seems to me there aren't many of either.

On one hand, there's the benefit of being able to jump up a TINY cliff that forces you to walk for another 7 minutes because you can't step over it. I think this has more to do with bad level design than anything else though, and could easily be dealt with by taking greater care in avoiding obtuse design decisions(La Theine I'm looking at you) or redesigning certain areas slightly.

There's also the argument that the world "opens up" and you can "explore". This is an impossibility because you can't explore something that hasn't been programmed in. In Final Fantasy XI, if there was a way to get somewhere, there was probably something there, and if there wasn't, well it was a wall. Final Fantasy XIV seems to follow the same philosophy.

If we're talking about combat advantages, things get a little more interesting, but abilities like stun for example, and the lack of an auto-attack make jumping behind an opponent to try to score a crit hit(a strategy I'd use as my rogue in WoW) unnecessary, because you can do the same thing by just circling around it.

Is there anything else I'm not looking at?

[Aldwin]

The people against it would still be on the receiving end of the many ways to abuse jumping that are present in games that inclue it.

Context sensitive jumping doesn't necessitate clicking yes/no, or opening a menu. It can simply be initiated by walking to a certain area, or against a ledge. How is less "control" (you decide to walk there, the game doesn't walk you there against your will) than walking there and pressing a key to manually jump?

I've said something similiar in other jump posts, but I"ll say it again here. Why make it so you can walk around? Why not just choose a point on your map, and if the game allows you to move in that direction, it does so for you? You see an enemy, you choose to attack it. Your character automatically walks over there and engages. You could even take it a step further and say you just watch the outcome, without any interactive input from yourself at all.

These are extreme examples yes, but I feel they imply the very reason why I'm against a context sesntive jump.