[dev1008] About Jumping

[gifthorse]

I feel more "immersed" (That seems to be the buzz word of the day) when I'm able to jump. I feel restricted and tied down when im forced to march from point A to point B like a good little robot. I will admit that people jumping up on certain things like counters and getting in the way of NPCS is annoying. simple fix? put invisible walls there. there's no need for ppl to be getting behind counters anyways....

Tell me about it. People who just hate on jumping because of issue XYZ are so inept at thinking of solutions. If you're against jump just because of a few ways in which it can be abused, then maybe you just need a lesson in problem solving.

"Bunny hopping"

Solution: Jumping costs stamina

"People will jump in annoying places"

Solution: Invisible Shield protecting that annoying place.

You're welcome America.

[Neptune]

Focant, how dare you call into question my important thread contribution!

Also, thank you gifthorse.

[Focant]

I know I'm treading the same ground quite a bit in my posts. I keep harping on the design philosophy of XIV and the way it handles. I'm going to probably do so again a bit so, forgive me.

The thing you have to consider though is what path would expand XIV the most? What features would improve it the most? If you compared jumping side by side with something like... improved party mechanics and expanding battle regimens, streamlining them at the same time, I'd say that improving party mechanics would go a lot farther in giving the game more depth. There are many ways of expanding the game, jumping included, but the question is, given what XIV is, not what it could have been or what it's not, what new features would help the most? Do we demolish what's there and rebuild it to cater to a single mechanic that may end up adding a limited level of depth, or do we take what's there and build on it?

In this case I'd say we should build on what's there instead of starting anew. Focus on expanding the game in other ways, giving it a unique experience unto itself, something it's already positioned to do.

[gifthorse]

I know I'm treading the same ground quite a bit in my posts. I keep harping on the design philosophy of XIV and the way it handles. I'm going to probably do so again a bit so, forgive me.

The thing you have to consider though is what path would expand XIV the most? What features would improve it the most? If you compared jumping side by side with something like... improved party mechanics and expanding battle regimens, streamlining them at the same time, I'd say that improving party mechanics would go a lot farther in giving the game more depth. There are many ways of expanding the game, jumping included, but the question is, given what XIV is, not what it could have been or what it's not, what new features would help the most? Do we demolish what's there and rebuild it to cater to a single mechanic that may end up adding a limited level of depth, or do we take what's there and build on it?

In this case I'd say we should build on what's there instead of starting anew. Focus on expanding the game in other ways, giving it a unique experience unto itself, something it's already positioned to do.

I have to agree that jumping is by no means a priority. And if they implemented it now, it could be seen as kind of superfluous; just a practical means of getting over some rocks and whatnot. But even now, the zones can accommodate it. The zones which we have presently, while not giving much meaning to it, don't discourage it.

For future reference, they could develop zones with the jump feature in mind. But again, I don't think it's a priority. However, just because it is not a priority compared to the game's other failings, does not mean it should be dismissed as totally incompatible with the design philosophy, and that's mainly because the design philosophy has not taken jumping into account. The game has no opinion on jumping at the moment. The zones are indifferent to it. It could be added, or it couldn't and it wouldnt make much difference to the mechanics in place.

I will say this, I think it should be implemented if only so that it could inform more interesting content in the future.

So in conclusion, development time is the only factor influencing my opinion on jumping. I do think it's an integral part of any MMO, but I don't think it's a priority. My main qualm is with those who dismiss its implementation for reasons which are something along the lines of: "I don't want bunny hopping, platforming elements, or any thing I deem to be at odds with Final Fantasy tradition."

[Rawry]

I know I'm treading the same ground quite a bit in my posts. I keep harping on the design philosophy of XIV and the way it handles. I'm going to probably do so again a bit so, forgive me.

The thing you have to consider though is what path would expand XIV the most? What features would improve it the most? If you compared jumping side by side with something like... improved party mechanics and expanding battle regimens, streamlining them at the same time, I'd say that improving party mechanics would go a lot farther in giving the game more depth. There are many ways of expanding the game, jumping included, but the question is, given what XIV is, not what it could have been or what it's not, what new features would help the most? Do we demolish what's there and rebuild it to cater to a single mechanic that may end up adding a limited level of depth, or do we take what's there and build on it?

In this case I'd say we should build on what's there instead of starting anew. Focus on expanding the game in other ways, giving it a unique experience unto itself, something it's already positioned to do.

i may be confused.... and correct me if im wrong.. but are you saying that the way the game is designed now.. they wouldnt be able to add "jumping" with out totally redesigning everything?

[Aigeas]

Add jump, but with a Cooldown, like the ability to jump once each 10 seconds, for those who are annoyed to see people jumping around like Spaz nonstop :P

[Focant]

i may be confused.... and correct me if im wrong.. but are you saying that the way the game is designed now.. they wouldnt be able to add "jumping" with out totally redesigning everything?

No I'm saying that in order to make jumping meaningful, a lot more work would have to go into it than creating an animation and allowing character to move vertically. It's one thing to add the feature, it's another to give it purpose.

I have to agree that jumping is by no means a priority. And if they implemented it now, it could be seen as kind of superfluous; just a practical means of getting over some rocks and whatnot. But even now, the zones can accommodate it. The zones which we have presently, while not giving much meaning to it, don't discourage it.

For future reference, they could develop zones with the jump feature in mind. But again, I don't think it's a priority. However, just because it is not a priority compared to the game's other failings, does not mean it should be dismissed as totally incompatible with the design philosophy, and that's mainly because the design philosophy has not taken jumping into account. The game has no opinion on jumping at the moment. The zones are indifferent to it. It could be added, or it couldn't and it wouldnt make much difference to the mechanics in place.

I will say this, I think it should be implemented if only so that it could inform more interesting content in the future.

So in conclusion, development time is the only factor influencing my opinion on jumping. I do think it's an integral part of any MMO, but I don't think it's a priority. My main qualm is with those who dismiss its implementation for reasons which are something along the lines of: "I don't want bunny hopping, platforming elements, or any thing I deem to be at odds with Final Fantasy tradition."

I can't say that jumping is inherently "bad," that it somehow hinders the game or wouldn't have some place given proper supporting content. I must say though that by choosing to not include jumping, the game instantly took a stance on it. If you can't jump you build the areas with characters being firmly planted on the ground in mind. You create content focusing on other aspects of gameplay aside from area navigation. The game could certainly be reworked to accommodate jumping. It could be built up to provide an in-depth experience with that feature. At what point though are you moving away from what makes sense given what's already there and instead attempting to build an environment solely for a personally desired feature? At what point are you making a new game instead of improving an old one? Perhaps that last point is a bit exaggerated but I do wonder if jumping would truly make the game so much better.

I'm fine with jump if it's added somewhere down the line, as long as there's proper motivation to use it. Personally though I feel too much would need to be changed to accommodate it and what would be gained would hardly justify the effort. We can continue to go around the tree or tear it up and build a road. Either is fine, ultimately, it's just a matter of if saving time not going around the tree is worth the effort of destroying it. =/

Also, one thing to add. I know people saying jumping doesn't seem "FF" enough might get on your nerves. This is XIV and not XI, yeah. Thing is it's built by some of the same people and they set out to give us an experience different from that of the mainstream mmo. It may not be what you or any other person wants, but discrediting someone's argument because they feel that jumping doesn't feel completely in tune with the heart of the game is like saying people can't like other genres of games.

[Nephera]

If you can't jump you build the areas with characters being firmly planted on the ground in mind.

If they did this the thread wouldnt have skyrocketed to popularity.

People wouldn't want it if they weren't reaching places where they go "boy i sure wish i could jump over this piddly little incline."

[Focant]

If they did this the thread wouldnt have skyrocketed to popularity.

People wouldn't want it if they weren't reaching places where they go "boy i sure wish i could jump over this piddly little incline."

As was stated before by myself and many others, there are better ways to fix that issue than jumping, mainly through improving collision detection and terrain hang-ups. That or SE can just make the piddly little inclines huge cliffs and that also solves the issue.

Also as an aside, people complained about being blocked by chest high walls in XI. The thing about those is that they were put there intentionally. If they had jumping in that game they'd just make the wall higher. It needs to be clear that there is a difference between "You aren't supposed to go there," and just the terrain being stupid.

[Rawry]

No I'm saying that in order to make jumping meaningful, a lot more work would have to go into it than creating an animation and allowing character to move vertically. It's one thing to add the feature, it's another to give it purpose.

Erm Being able to jump over that annoying ass fence that always gets in my way, or jumping up a hill that I would other wise have to spend 5 minutes walking around is reason enough for me. If they add other reasons to jump, such as boss encounters that require you to jump then yay.. even better. Right now -for me- its more about convenience and the feeling of freedom.