[dev1008] About Jumping

[Nephera]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zz9Mz...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xkePDePah8
again the boundries of realism are already broken.

[Aramil]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zz9Mz...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xkePDePah8
again the boundries of realism are already broken.

and? I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make.

It only mean that the boundaries of realism can be broken which is to be expected since it's a fantasy game. It don't mean that everything have to be irrealistic or that realistic stuff is impossible. It's neither in favor or against jumping be it realistic jumping or not. It just mean that realistic stuff and irrealistic stuff can both be in the game.

[Rowyne]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zz9Mz...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xkePDePah8
again the boundries of realism are already broken.

ZOMG THOSE PEOPLE WERE JUMPING!!!!

The world didn't come to an end and the server didn't lag out and crash. Oh, my!

</sarcasm>

The in-combat jump animation you see in this video is perfect for special abilities, and makes them stand out.

As for those of us wanting to see a normal jump implemented, we aren't asking for anything dramatic like this. A normal jump would be something that looks realistic, yet is functional.

Great videos, Nephera! Thanks for posting!

[Iggyuk]

First, I would like to mention that I support implementation of jump into FFXIV. And by jump, I mean a free jump feature that can be performed anywhere, not one bound to locations/circumstances (as in FFXIII).
Of course, as Yoshi P. mentioned, jumping is one form of expression but also brings more freedom to FFXIV. Freedom in a game is probably the most important aspect. Why is that? Because when you take off limitations, it allows both players and developers to become creative: players are able to find new strategies in combat, new ways of entertaining themselves, get access to more places to explore, are able to express themselves in more different ways (especially important since we are in a game with other players that can`t see our face or the emotion in our voice), and many more. While at the same time, it allows developers to be more creative about content, put new challenges in place, etc.

Just look at Minecraft, it became a very successful game (before even being officially released!) because it gives the players freedom to build and explore to their hearts content. Of course, Final Fantasy is not a sandbox game, but I just wanted to point out that having freedom is probably the most important thing (both in real life and gaming life). It allows us to make our own stories.

Yes, allowing more freedom also give more means to immature players to annoy honest players. However, i don`t think we should base our decisions to implement freedom features (such as jumping) by including these bad players in the picture. We should base our decisions on what is the more fun for everyone regardless of these bad players. There are already blacklist feature, GMs to punish bad players and other methods to enjoy ourselves regardless. Otherwise, we might as well just play single player games, right?

So, yes I am supporting jumping feature because it allows for more character freedom, self-expression and overall, more fun for many players. A free jumping feature (being able to jump anywhere, anytime) is the way to go in my opinion since it is the jumping method that gives the more freedom to our characters. As for players who dislike jumping because it not "Final Fantasy-esque", I can honestly say they have no obligations to use it outside precise locations it is required, and if we look back at the Final Fantasy history, starting from Final Fantasy 1, MANY things where not Final Fantasy-esque the first time they were brought in but gradually became Final Fantasy-esque. Why is that? The technology back them was not the same as it is today. The gameplay of single player Final Fantasy is different from the gameplay of a multiplayer Final Fantasy with real-time combat. In previous Final Fantasy, jumping was animated during cutscene, so there was jumping, you just couldn`t really control it (just think of FF6 for example, there was a lot of animated jumping in cutscenes, dungeon maps and combat -- or more recently FF13, so jumping is not something "new" to Final Fantasy).
As for people complaining it is not aesthetic to see people jumping around, I can only say this to them: we already have jumping animations in combat (using actions) and in cutscenes. It is only natural that we could be able to jump freely. Also, I would like to remind everyone, this is not WoW or some other MMORPG. We have a lot of mature players and the majority of people will not spam jumping like little immature kids. And, if it comes down to it, the developers could always add an anti-jumping-spam feature, either through adding a small timer after several jumps have been performed, or stamina, etc.

In conclusion, not only do I support jumping, I also support any new feature that will bring more freedom to my character. Final Fantasy XIV has the advanced technology for it, let`s make this game the best for all.

[Lionheart]

I won't mind a button-trigger action near certain points of the terrain... just not free jumping anywhere.

[Kurai]

I won't mind a button-trigger action near certain points of the terrain... just not free jumping anywhere.

i like the sound of that (’-’*) フフ

spam jumping in WoW annoyed me to no end

[Neptune]

It's sad that our most viewed thread is about jumping. All of you that are stirring up controversy in here are like a bunch of wig-wearing, bald old men stuck in tradition. "Send the troops to fight those damned Colonists! We aren't going to stand for those Americans not paying us taxes! Screw em'!"

For God's sake you are GAMERS! Most of you are under 30 years of age. Stop acting like a bunch of old people!

[Miliant]

First off, I must assume that people saying there were no jumping mechanics in FF before FFXIII never played FFT, FFTA, FFTA2, etc... all "Final Fantasy"-branded games in which you character automatically jumps over obstacles when the distance is jumpable. I therefore gather that this anti-jump ultraconservative understanding of FF games is either incomplete because they have not played these games I mentioned, or a misinterpretation of what makes a FF game a FF. In either case, it defeats the argument that jumping would kill the FF atmosphere.

In addition, I would like to add that the jump/no jump discussion is probably the most viewed and discussed topic because it's not simply the discussion between those who want jump and those who do not. It is iconic of the argument between a retrograde way of understanding games that has led FFXIV to the state in which it is right now, and an innovative way of understanding games that seeks to make FFXIV a modern MMO, with modern mechanics that allows for more freedom of play.

I do not refer only to freedom of gameplay, but also freedom from the FFXI-bred behavior that leads players to want to control what others do, as is examplified by the many topics in this forums: "I don't want jump because everyone else will be jumping around, even if I won't", "I don't want pvp in the game, even if I can choose not to participate", "I want everyone to adjust to a system that clearly isn't working, not even for the devs", "Hey devs, don't listen to the requests", etc...

[JakeRoon]

but also freedom from the FFXI-bred behavior that leads players to want to control what others do, as is examplified by the many topics in this forums: "I don't want jump because everyone else will be jumping around, even if I won't", "I don't want pvp in the game, even if I can choose not to participate", "I want everyone to adjust to a system that clearly isn't working, not even for the devs", "Hey devs, don't listen to the requests", etc...

Preach on brother, preach on,

Set MY DoDO's free from the tyranny of FFxi!!!!!!

[gifthorse]

First off, I must assume that people saying there were no jumping mechanics in FF before FFXIII never played FFT, FFTA, FFTA2, etc... all "Final Fantasy"-branded games in which you character automatically jumps over obstacles when the distance is jumpable. I therefore gather that this anti-jump ultraconservative understanding of FF games is either incomplete because they have not played these games I mentioned, or a misinterpretation of what makes a FF game a FF. In either case, it defeats the argument that jumping would kill the FF atmosphere.

In addition, I would like to add that the jump/no jump discussion is probably the most viewed and discussed topic because it's not simply the discussion between those who want jump and those who do not. It is iconic of the argument between a retrograde way of understanding games that has led FFXIV to the state in which it is right now, and an innovative way of understanding games that seeks to make FFXIV a modern MMO, with modern mechanics that allows for more freedom of play.

I do not refer only to freedom of gameplay, but also freedom from the FFXI-bred behavior that leads players to want to control what others do, as is examplified by the many topics in this forums: "I don't want jump because everyone else will be jumping around, even if I won't", "I don't want pvp in the game, even if I can choose not to participate", "I want everyone to adjust to a system that clearly isn't working, not even for the devs", "Hey devs, don't listen to the requests", etc...

This is so true.

People complain of jumping tampering with the integrity of the Final Fantasy franchise, but it probably pays to understand that Final Fantasy is more than just running everywhere and linear exploration. If all Final Fantasy games came down to was a lack of jump, then nobody would play them.

Every Final Fantasy game has sought to improve upon the one which came before it, or differentiate in some other way. In FFXI, drastic combat changes were needed to take it to the industry standard, on account of the fact that you can't have typical FF random encounters in an MMO. Not viably anyway. I do so fondly recall people dimissing FFXI as "not a real final fantasy", which makes it all the more amusing to hear people say the same thing for FFXIV when using FFXI as a typical model.

If FFXI could step forward and make the necessary changes, while still maintaing that "Final Fantasy atmosphere" you are all so obsessed with, I can't see that implementing jump in FFXIV can't do something similar by including jumping.

Unless you're blind, you'll realise that characters jump all the time in Final Fantasy games. Even as far back as FFVIII you had some jumping minigames, not to mention the fact that characters never stopped jumping in cutscenes, or so it felt like.

Lightning was always flipping around and doing shit in FFXIII. In the opening cutscene for FFXIV, we see players running around and dodging. In one of the R46 cutscenes, players are doing crazy backflips. I could go on and drive the point home, but the fact remains that Final Fantasy games are not exclusive to jumping and I still fail to see how that is a valid argument. I would say that, once upon a time, what made a Final Fantasy game was its ability to push the envelope, nowadays there's no chance of that happening when its playerbase is so rooted in what they think is tradition.