[dev1008] About Jumping

[Zumi]

I would be all for having a Jump Button.

[origamikitsune]

Because (as it's been argued many many times within this thread), it's not just the need to jump down from ledges, but there are other bits of terrain you sometimes get hung up on, and the need to jump to get 'unstuck' isn't going to be detected by some kind of auto-jump. It needs to be a manual function to give complete freedom and a truly full range of motion.

My space bar/0 key on my number pad isn't being taken up by anything, which is usually where the jump button is on the keyboard.

Gamepad users... well, I don't know how to answer that since I don't play with a gamepad.

It has been my experience that free jumping (say in Aion) creates just as many places to get stuck as it fixes your ability to get unstuck. I have yet to see an MMO with free jumping where it doesn't sometimes thinks you are falling when in fact you are trying to land on a slope (causing you to "fall" in place).

[Efrye]

If you want to prevent bunny hopping, the jumping could be done the way it is in Monster Hunter. Run off a ledge, and you jump off it. Run up to a ledge, and you jump up and climb up it. It's simple and easy and you don't even have to think about it, and makes it feel much more natural. [...]

From what I understood, they don't want to implement jumping just to get around the terrain easier but rather as a form of expression/emote for the player. (See page 44)

Still, I think the Monster Hunter way of jumping would be a perfect fit for Final Fantasy XIV. It worked in XIII as well after all, only that is was bound to very specific points and didn't trigger at any ledge. Which was less than optimal.

[Tezz_Xivectro]

There has been no jumping mechanics in Final Fantasy before FFXIII (and even then it was automatic), thus I can't say it's very FF-esque at all. One of the best action games of the last decade (MGS, Demon's Souls) didn't have jumping, so the excuse of the game being somehow "inferior" for not having it doesn't apply either.

Aesthetically it can enhance it but the point is that when done wrong it will look dumb. Final Fantasy as a series and as an MMO is more classy than other MMO's, thus free for all jumping around does not enhance the aesthetics, but the opposite. Making it an action that happens when needed (maybe by a press of a button or automatically) is more classy and makes sense. Limitations are not always a bad thing, just like your name always starts with an uppercase letter and you can't use numbers or any weird letters in your name for the aesthetics' sake. The female models are also not merely a pair of huge boobs and ass, and the equipment stays for the most part classy even if mildly revealing. It is simply more classy that way, and so is jumping when you can do it only when needed.

There's no notable jumping, especially in "main" FF titles, in Final Fantasy. The extent of Jump is usually in cut-scenes, the movies, automatically and as an ability.

The main point about it being "Final Fantasy" is that there is dramatically impossible jumping animations when it is done in FF (and hardly realistic at all).
To follow on SE's style, if they added cool animations for these jumps similar to how they animate them, then it would be pure win. NOT if everyone could run around spamming them. They would have a realistic length of time to do them. From in the air to when they land, and the delay of landing.
The limitation would be like a glorified emote that could only work while at 100% stamina (it's easy to add delay or limitations).


I've been proposing an "Auto-jump" since Alpha. Everyone kept saying that programming the terrain for jump/hop/climb points would be a lot of effort and simply adding jump/climb seemed reasonable (and it does from that aspect). I'm not sure if it's true or if they could just design the terrain edges a special way and then copy-paste so the rules apply everywhere.

Either way, it seems that not many people have a problem with using Zelda's system of jump/climb. If we all agree on something, then they will recognize it and likely develop/implement changes.

This is a back & forth argument no matter what. Let's show SE that we can settle on something. Auto-jump or Zelda-like system is something everyone seems to be in favor of.

[Jaber]

From what I understood, they don't want to implement jumping just to get around the terrain easier but rather as a form of expression/emote for the player. (See page 44)

Still, I think the Monster Hunter way of jumping would be a perfect fit for Final Fantasy XIV. It worked in XIII as well after all, only that is was bound to very specific points and didn't trigger at any ledge. Which was less than optimal.

I think what the playerbase wants is more important, and what the playerbase wants is anything but bunnyhopping, from what I've seen.
Personally I think having areas you have to climb up to and gaps you have to jump across would make exploring and traversing the world more enjoyable and less monotonous. Adding jumps as only a 'form of expression' is entirely useless and unrelated to the issue that brought up jumping in the first place.

[Maxwell]

One simple rule: If jumping doesnt allow you to go places you cant go without jumping, dont bother implementing it. It gonna be even more frustrating not being able to jump down a 1ft tall ledge because you couldnt walk down of it before.


Its just gonna be obnoxious if your constantly stopped by invisible walls all over the place.

[Nephera]

One simple rule: If jumping doesnt allow you to go places you cant go without jumping, dont bother implementing it. It gonna be even more frustrating not being able to jump down a 1ft tall ledge because you couldnt walk down of it before.


Its just gonna be obnoxious if your constantly stopped by invisible walls all over the place.

Depends, i would love to get on top of uldah, but getting in front of levequest granters would be pretty annoying.

[origamikitsune]

Regarding world jumping.

We have cliffs. You can run down them. This sucks, because there are places I can't run down, that LOOK like I should be able to and, imo, that ruins the "Feel" of the game just as much as bouncing around like a kangaroo. So expand the area in which I can run down a cliff, with the new sections being "jumpable" either manually or automatically, but only in passive mode.

This does several things. Its easier to navigate. It does not require re-writing of entire zones; just key areas (still a lot of work, but not as much). People who want jump, get jump. People who don't want jump spam in the city, don't get jump spam. Bunny-hops do not become the defacto button mashing tactic when we eventually get PvP of some kind (be it ballista, duels, arena, or whatever). Jump does not become a necessary tactic in regular combat. Jump (the combat ability) can still remain the purview of Dragoon. It adds that little bit of life to the characters that, alone, might not be much, but with other little things makes a big difference in improving the overall "feel" of the game.

As for dealing with it now; this is one of those things that IF it is going to be implemented, it is better implemented now, before we have even more zones that have to be edited after going live to accommodate jumping. Designing an MMO (or fixing one as the case is, here) is an all-encompassing endeavor that is hindered if you don't at least keep in mind what you might or probably will be doing eventually.

I'm sure someone else has suggested similar in this thread already, but there you have it again because I didn't read 13 pages of posts in full.

[Platinumstorm]

One thing I'd like to add is that I think Yoshi is surprised by the comments because there are so many Final Fantasy XI stalwarts on here that are resistant to change and don't necessarily express the views of mmorpg players as a whole. Jumping adds freedom and the ability to add not only depth to quests, but entirely new quest styles. You can always tie the action of jumping to the stamina bar, and that will prevent people from spamming the jump button from those who get worried about people hopping all over.

[Alkar]

Honestly I think the best solution is to implement jumping and climbing like FFX-2 and FFXIII. You can't jump around like an idiot and you can go over cliffs and stuff.
Either automatic like XIII or with a simple button press when near a cliff or w/e. From this they'll build the future new areas so these features will be used to actually make exploring more interesting.
Also an animation when you drop down would be nice instead of simply running down a cliff.