[dev1008] About Jumping

[Kaedan]

My god, I'm bumping this so people stop making topics about it.

[Rowyne]

A lot of people are using the immersion argument against jumping, and that FFXI didn't need it, so we don't either. There is no logic in citing FFXI as an example, what with all the jumpy jig dancing that happened after they introduced the Dancer job. It's not any more distracting than jumping.

Jumping does serve an actual purpose, however. Not just to get down from ledges or across cracks or uneven terrain.

In FFXI I fell three times through the docks in front of Windy's fishing guild. Jumping might have helped me get out of that jam, instead of having to submit a ticket and wait 30 minutes for a GM to get me out.

In FFXIV, there's a 2-inch high bit of carved stone in the basement of the Mizzenmast by the chocobo stables where I always get hung up. Of course, if this game allowed you to walk backwards (something else that's also missing), I'd just take a step back and walk around it. My second option would be to try to jump over it, but I can't. Instead, I'm forced to pan my camera around, pivot and circle around like some kind of obstacle course.

I believe that jumping is necessary. I don't want to use it because I'm bored, or I want more flavor. I just want to properly control my character, and this is a tool that will help me!

[Aldwin]

My opinion. I'm all for jump, for various reasons I've listed in numerous posts about this topic. But I'd rather not have a jump than a limited one. The FFXIII idea I think is horrible. I don't want more menus popping up asking if I want to do this or that. And I don't want more "auto" type features either. The whole idea to me is to be able to jump when I want, off of anything I want, with consequences of course, but the whole idea is to have more freedom. Not restrictions.

Either free jump, or no jump please.

[Kaedan]

My opinion. I'm all for jump, for various reasons I've listed in numerous posts about this topic. But I'd rather not have a jump than a limited one. The FFXIII idea I think is horrible. I don't want more menus popping up asking if I want to do this or that. And I don't want more "auto" type features either. The whole idea to me is to be able to jump when I want, off of anything I want, with consequences of course, but the whole idea is to have more freedom. Not restrictions.

Either free jump, or no jump please.

For one thing, there wouldn't be a menu pop-up for it... you'd just automatically jump over it. Have you ever played Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time? It would be exactly like that.

But more importantly... what do you have against a limited form of jump?

Manual jump with the following restrictions:
-No Jumping off places that are "too high" (this avoids having to add falling damage).
-Limiting height of jump, just enough to get you up a small hill or something. (this avoids having to redesign entire areas)
-Keeping invisible walls in certain areas (this avoids people getting into places they aren't supposed to and having to redesign said areas).

What would be wrong with that? There are very real, complicated design issues that would surface while adding free jump. This avoids the worst of them and gives the best of both worlds.

[Aldwin]

For one thing, there wouldn't be a menu pop-up for it... you'd just automatically jump over it. Have you ever played Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time? It would be exactly like that.

But more importantly... what do you have against a limited form of jump?

Manual jump with the following restrictions:
-No Jumping off places that are "too high" (this avoids having to add falling damage).
-Limiting height of jump, just enough to get you up a small hill or something. (this avoids having to redesign entire areas)
-Keeping invisible walls in certain areas (this avoids people getting into places they aren't supposed to and having to redesign said areas).

What would be wrong with that? There are very real, complicated design issues that would surface while adding free jump. This avoids the worst of them and gives the best of both worlds.

My problem with a "limited" form of jump is just that, "limited". What do you have against it? You're afraid of seeing people jumping around for no reason? I don't see that a valid point, since I could argue I'm tired of seeing people standing around NOT jumping.

[Kaedan]

My problem with a "limited" form of jump is just that, "limited". What do you have against it? You're afraid of seeing people jumping around for no reason? I don't see that a valid point, since I could argue I'm tired of seeing people standing around NOT jumping.

You have a problem with it because it's limited...? That isn't an argument. Tell me exactly why you disagree with the three limitations I presented.

I have already stated the reasons for making it limited. So unless you answer my question, you're just being belligerent for the sake of it.

[Aldwin]

You have a problem with it because it's limited...? That isn't an argument. Tell me exactly why you disagree with the three limitations I presented.

I have already stated the reasons for making it limited. So unless you answer my question, you're just being belligerent for the sake of it.

I want to be able to jump over a small ledge if I choose to and not wait for an animation to do it for me. I want jump off a cliff if I choose to, even a very high one, without the screen jarring, direct drop to the bottom that occurs now. I may even want to jump up onto objects just because I feel like it.

I don't want to run around a ledge looking for the spot that activates this auto jump either. Now I'm sure it's possible it could be implimented without having a designated "spot".

Them having to completely redesign zones to add a jump feature? I doubt they would need to do that, although I agree some areas would need to be changed to prevent you from getting into it by jumping.

Most importantly, I believe adding a free jump would force them to impliment some type of gravity. It would also open up areas of the game that are blocked off, like most water. It was extremely annoying to me (and this is only my opinion) the first time I was walking through the black shroud and saw the waterfall at the end of the copy/pasted river, but I couldn't get more than like 10yards close to it because there was this tiny rock in my way. Or I couldn't jump off the tiny ledge surrounding said river, because I had to walk around to the "designated" spot to cross.

While these may all be just opinions, having to follow set paths too often, is immersion breaking for me.

[trinta]

I have to agree with Kaedan. As I expressed elsewhere, my only reason for insisting we need a free jump is for those quirky little bits of terrain that make your character stop unreasonably. I don't feel that an auto-jump would be a good solution because these places are so tiny and hard to find (many people have never run into them at all) that I doubt they'd be caught for auto-jump coding. But a limited jump would more than suffice for my own purposes.

[Rowyne]

I don't feel that an auto-jump would be a good solution because these places are so tiny and hard to find (many people have never run into them at all) that I doubt they'd be caught for auto-jump coding.

^ Agree with this 100%. Would rather see a manual jump.

[Skidkidd]

Kilta_Firelotus gets excited when you refer to her as "sweet cheeks".