ARR Gil Cap Reduction

[darkstarpoet1]

This would happen with or without redenomination. It doesn't change the fact that 10x1 is the exact same result as 1x10.

As far as prices go, we all know they fluctuate but people are crazy if they think they can still get away with selling stuff in ARR for anywhere near the prices they are now.

A. Nobody will be able to afford it, not even established players.

B. Crafters like me who embrace this change will force the more stubborn ones to follow suit by pricing accordingly if they want to sell anything ever again.

i'm not saying that gil values won't be the same, but this is one of the cases where perception will be reality. if people freak out when they see their gil get lower they will become more stingy spending it even though it has the same monetary value.

i remember a few years ago my wife and i went to vegas(either 2005 or 2006). she came by and i was playing craps and had been having a decent run at things. i had all of the bars in front of me filled of chips. she walked back by a few hours later and i was down to the top bar full and only part of the second bar with a few chips. she started yelling "we need to go before you lose all your chips". i looked at her crazy, but was sleepy so left with her anyways.

later we got to the room and i asked her what she was talking about. she was like earlier "you had all 5 bars full of chips, but later you were almost out of chips". i had to laugh at that and responded "yeah, but earlier it was full of $1 and $5 chips, but when you came back those were all $100 and $5 chips". even though i had picked up over $13,000 in cash that night playing craps she thought i was about to go broke because she just saw the numbers of chips get lower and paid no attention to the value those chips had.

this is what i mean by perception is reality in most cases.

[Claustrum]

this is where you are wrong. there are multiple factors changing in 2.0 along with the gil conversion.

i'm going to give a few basic math things to show the difference. these are just random numbers, but show the trends.
let's say there are 100 people in the server now, but with 2.0 that jumps to 1000. the average wealth of those 100 are 5mil. the total wealth in that will be 500mil. the thing is in 2.0 they will drastically increase the demand for items due to the new players, but the overall wealth hasn't increased across the server because when new they start with nothing.

in the new servers you have the "same" wealth as before, but you actually have a completely new economy because with those 900 extra people the demands for each item changes. that effectively changes the needs and demands in the economy completely so the items themselves change in demand. this is why the economy will not be exactly the same. if the conversion was done previous to the 2.0 launch with nothing else changing it would be a straight conversion, but this is not the case so the entire economy will change.

I'm sorry, I thought we were discussing the 90% slash in all current gil, all sources of gil, and all gil costs, so that is the only factor I'm discussing. This thread was started due to complaints of how the gil slash is going to change the economy, not how every other factor is going to change the economy.

You are correct in your points certainly, but I am only attempting to address concerns about the gil slash itself, not everything else that ARR is bringing.

[darkstarpoet1]

I'm sorry, I thought we were discussing the 90% slash in all current gil, all sources of gil, and all gil costs, so that is the only factor I'm discussing. This thread was started due to complaints of how the gil slash is going to change the economy, not how every other factor is going to change the economy.

You are correct in your points certainly, but I am only attempting to address concerns about the gil slash itself, not everything else that ARR is bringing.

no, i agree with you completely that your buying power will be the same. i'm not upset about the change even though i'm being reduced(i didn't say losing) by hundreds of millions because it is the same percentage in drop as everyone else. my only point is that the perception of people can make it a reality in that they can become more stingy and less willing to buy some items because they have it in their heads they have less overall. that along with other factors can lead to certain high sought after items now to become near worthless in 2.0 and items people take for granted now to drastically increase in value due to the new demands for them.

my only reason for posting is just to point out that there are multiple things that will be coming in 2.0 so the items prices now are not assured to be of the same worth then. that just means the economy could shift one way or the other and we can't really expect everything to be dropped by 90% because some could lose wayyyy more than 90% of its value while some may only lose 50% or so.

the reason i use the vegas example is because the wife thought i was doing really well when i had close to $300 in $1 and $5 chips because she saw tons of them, but when she came back and i had over $13,000 in black chips she thought i was about broke because she believed it to be less money overall. i had basically done what xiv is doing on the craps table. the $300 i had the first time she came up was still there, but it was all converted into 3 individual black $100 chips and all she did was count the overall number of chips.

edit: i guess a better example would be the first time i had 300 chips that were all $1 each and the second time she came up i had 30 chips that were all $10, but since i had 270 less chips she thought i was losing. i just wanted to lose a real example instead of some made up one. it was just a real life example because even though i was over $12,700 farther up the second time she still thought i was lower. her perception was her reality even though she was completely wrong.

[Jaeger]

I'll use an example.
1 USD is roughly 80 JPN Yen.
So lets say I have 1000 USD I get it converted into Yen and go to Japan.
I touchdown in Japan and I've got 80000 JPN Yen.

Its not like I think to myself "omgs I'm rich!"
A different value is given from the exchange rate, the currency value remains the same.

The economic indicator is the purchasing power of the monetary unit. If you've traveled before you'd know the purchasing power of your money varies from country to country. Invalid argument...

The main issue here is people believe that everything in the market will get cut to 10% current value. Many other disagree and that is what will create the disparity in the purchasing power of our monetary unit (gil) from current to ARR economies.

Many claim the markets will all fall by 90%, many others including myself don't. This is the common fallacy when in real life, any political system tries to take over and control an economy. You can crunch the numbers all you want, but people acting in any environment will always remain somewhat unpredictable.

[Ladon]

The economic indicator is the purchasing power of the monetary unit. If you've traveled before you'd know the purchasing power of your money varies from country to country. Invalid argument...

The main issue here is people believe that everything in the market will get cut to 10% current value. Many other disagree and that is what will create the disparity in the purchasing power of our monetary unit (gil) from current to ARR economies.

Many claim the markets will all fall by 90%, many others including myself don't. This is the common fallacy when in real life, any political system tries to take over and control an economy. You can crunch the numbers all you want, but people acting in any environment will always remain somewhat unpredictable.

The gil value change is going to have a lesser impact on prices then a LOT of other things that are changing in the game. Item value is going to change drastically because:

-Stats are being reworked to the point that we don't know the value of items in ARR.
-The battle system is being reworked which may impact the desirability of some items over others.
-New items are being introduced in ARR
-Item crafting and resource collection changes in ARR

These are all going to place much bigger roles in market shaping than the gil changes will. The market is going to have to adapt. It would have had to even if the gil changes were not being made.

[darkstarpoet1]

The gil value change is going to have a lesser impact on prices then a LOT of other things that are changing in the game. Item value is going to change drastically because:

-Stats are being reworked to the point that we don't know the value of items in ARR.
-The battle system is being reworked which may impact the desirability of some items over the other.
-New items are being introduced in ARR
-Item crafting and resource collection changes in ARR

These are all going to place much bigger roles in market shaping than the gil changes will. The market is going to have to adapt. It would have had to even if the gil changes were not being made.

another that will change is the fact there will be many new players joining the game so the demands on some items will increase.

i'm more of the opinion that the people that are saying the economy will be changing are doing so for many reasons and not only the gil conversion.

[Orophin]

Many claim the markets will all fall by 90%, many others including myself don't. This is the common fallacy when in real life, any political system tries to take over and control an economy. You can crunch the numbers all you want, but people acting in any environment will always remain somewhat unpredictable.

Actually, the predictable factor here is that everyone is going to have less money, and if you list something at a really high price, the vast majority of the playerbase is not going to have the money to buy said items. There are probably way more people with less than 10 million gil than there are more, plus you have new players to take into consideration.

Bottom line, you're not going to get 35mil for those relic weapons anymore.

[Gail]

Heh, anyone can look my post history in this thread (now 2).
I just had a quick look at yours in this thread and stopped counting after a few pages.
There is only 1 person beating a dead horse here. Ferth.
I said what I said with reasoning in it.

Let it go Ferth :3 Let it go.

[Ferth]

I have posted a lot. Some of that was during a discussion where I helped (atleast one person) understand what the changes were going to accomplish.

Some of my posts were a bit short, and a bit rude... but really this isn't a complicated concept to grasp. Your post started out great, you understand currency conversion... but you still think you are losing gil, and then you try to tell me that I'm just deluding myself by convincing myself i'm not really losing wealth... but I'm not losing wealth, there is no delusion there.

It really is just a currency conversion. Just pretend that you are moving from one country (1.0 land) to a new country (ARR) and weirdly enough they use the same name for their currency... but 1 gil in ARR is the equivalent of 10 gil in 1.0 land.

Your post is just fodder for the people who think they are losing something. And they aren't. You aren't. I'm not. I'm just converting all my 1.0 gil to ARR gil.

I apologize if my posts haven't all been completely civil, but really, this is not a hard concept to grasp and the sooner people stop thinking of it in personal terms the sooner they can realize that very little is going to change as a direct result of this.

[Gail]

1.x 10gil = 1 gil 2.0

It is a 1 way exchange rate.
Once that decimal eats it up with 2.0 live, its Gone.
Removal of gil from the economy, what I said in my earlier post twice.

Noone can compare 1.x economy to 2.0 economy because noone knows what 2.0 economy is going to be like.
The /10 exchange rate can only be considered a guide.
And the /10 from NPC and rewards is further trying to stear towards that guide.

But there is no way of accurately defining how much your gil will be worth.
For me to say. Oh double meld avengers are 10m now, so they're going to be 1m 2.0
Imo would be ignorant to say.

Back to my earlier example, while I was at the Airport in the States I bought a can of Coke.
When I touched down in Japan I got another can of Coke.
Using my exchange rate I worked out how much the Jp Coke should be but it actually cost more.
Why? because I'm in a different economy.