ARR Gil Cap Reduction

[Rannie]

Perhaps we should stop trying to reasonably set people straight about this. Instead, level crafts for 2.0 and when it hits, sell everything for the new 10%-ish value.

You'll look like you're undercutting the market, but you'll actually be selling it for the same 1.0 value in 2.0 currency, and people will compare your item sold at 20k against the same item sold by everyone else at 200k.

You'll come out with the profit and you'll make the first steps to stabilizing the market.

hmmm i do need to finish my leve achievement on my blm for grid... just got treespeak to do >.< almost burnt out on leves but ... I also need to finish leveling alch and gsm but hate running around my asshole to get to my thumb to drop that stuff off aaahahhhhhhh laziness is a beauty ain't she? lol and here comes headache didn't drink caffeine quick enough >.<

[Pyretta_Blaze]

Perhaps we should stop trying to reasonably set people straight about this. Instead, level crafts for 2.0 and when it hits, sell everything for the new 10%-ish value.

You'll look like you're undercutting the market, but you'll actually be selling it for the same 1.0 value in 2.0 currency, and people will compare your item sold at 20k against the same item sold by everyone else at 200k.

You'll come out with the profit and you'll make the first steps to stabilizing the market.

That was my plan even before the gil change was announced. I'm going to craft a ton of low and mid level gear and sell it for a reasonable price... If some jerk comes along and buys it up and lists it higher I will start giving it away...

[Nakiamiie]

Perhaps we should stop trying to reasonably set people straight about this. Instead, level crafts for 2.0 and when it hits, sell everything for the new 10%-ish value.

You'll look like you're undercutting the market, but you'll actually be selling it for the same 1.0 value in 2.0 currency, and people will compare your item sold at 20k against the same item sold by everyone else at 200k.

You'll come out with the profit and you'll make the first steps to stabilizing the market.

That was my plan even before the gil change was announced. I'm going to craft a ton of low and mid level gear and sell it for a reasonable price... If some jerk comes along and buys it up and lists it higher I will start giving it away...

Same for me. I even do that now.
I don't really care about a "stabilized" economy if I consider the prices not representing the real value of the items.
Selling at the market ward currently represent only 25% of my earnings, I don't care losing a bit if it's to sell faster and more, at a price that I consider to be more reasonable.

And when I find an item at an outrageous price, I flood the market with it at my price. That usually do the trick for a couple weeks.

People will come out of it with the same purchase power as they have now. That's what counts, not the amount of digits.
If you still feel insecure, just look at this before going to bed:

2,000,000 gil now -> 200,000,0 gil then.
six zeros! -> six zeros!

[Gail]

They are removing gil from the economy.
I think people are trying to give themselves some self comfort by saying "you'll have exactly the same amount value of currency as before"

It's not the case.

I'll use an example.
1 USD is roughly 80 JPN Yen.
So lets say I have 1000 USD I get it converted into Yen and go to Japan.
I touchdown in Japan and I've got 80000 JPN Yen.

Its not like I think to myself "omgs I'm rich!"
A different value is given from the exchange rate, the currency value remains the same.

Moving that decimal point is a whole different matter.

If everything would remain the same in 2.0 with just everything gil rewards/npc values/players banks all divided by 10.
Then why change it?
You don't say "Oh everything will remain the same just /10" for no reason, they are changing it for a reason.
To remove gil from the economy.

I'll lose alot of gil but that doesn't bother me.
The new introduction of 2.0 new players is the future of this game.
I wouldn't want any of them to be put off by the difference in wealth between them and older players.
In short.
What they're doing is completely understandable.
I just don't like the guise of "everything is going to be /10 it will be ok"

And that 99mil gil cap won't last, that will be bumped up sooner or later.

[Ferth]

They are removing gil from the economy.
I think people are trying to give themselves some self comfort by saying "you'll have exactly the same amount value of currency as before"

It's not the case.

I'll use an example.
1 USD is roughly 80 JPN Yen.
So lets say I have 1000 USD I get it converted into Yen and go to Japan.
I touchdown in Japan and I've got 80000 JPN Yen.

Its not like I think to myself "omgs I'm rich!"
A different value is given from the exchange rate, the currency value remains the same.

Moving that decimal point is a whole different matter.

If everything would remain the same in 2.0 with just everything gil rewards/npc values/players banks all divided by 10.
Then why change it?
You don't say "Oh everything will remain the same just /10" for no reason, they are changing it for a reason.
To remove gil from the economy.

I'll lose alot of gil but that doesn't bother me.
The new introduction of 2.0 new players is the future of this game.
I wouldn't want any of them to be put off by the difference in wealth between them and older players.
In short.
What they're doing is completely understandable.
I just don't like the guise of "everything is going to be /10 I will be ok"
And that 99mil gil cap won't last, that will be bumped up sooner or later.

They are doing it so the game starts with a currency that is tracked in hundreds rather than thousands and in hundred thousands rather than millions.

It is largely preferential.

You aren't losing anything.

The horse is dead. Stop beating it.

[Wynn]

They are removing gil from the economy.
I think people are trying to give themselves some self comfort by saying "you'll have exactly the same amount value of currency as before"

It's not the case.

I'll use an example.
1 USD is roughly 80 JPN Yen.
So lets say I have 1000 USD I get it converted into Yen and go to Japan.
I touchdown in Japan and I've got 80000 JPN Yen.

Its not like I think to myself "omgs I'm rich!"
A different value is given from the exchange rate, the currency value remains the same.

Moving that decimal point is a whole different matter.

If everything would remain the same in 2.0 with just everything gil rewards/npc values/players banks all divided by 10.
Then why change it?
You don't say "Oh everything will remain the same just /10" for no reason, they are changing it for a reason.
To remove gil from the economy.

I'll lose alot of gil but that doesn't bother me.
The new introduction of 2.0 new players is the future of this game.
I wouldn't want any of them to be put off by the difference in wealth between them and older players.
In short.
What they're doing is completely understandable.
I just don't like the guise of "everything is going to be /10 it will be ok"

And that 99mil gil cap won't last, that will be bumped up sooner or later.

I think your view point is flawed.

Replace the 80 yen with 10 and now reverse the situation so you are coming from Japan to the U.S. That is exactly what is occurring right now in XIV once ARR hits.

[darkstarpoet1]

I think your view point is flawed.

Replace the 80 yen with 10 and now reverse the situation so you are coming from Japan to the U.S. That is exactly what is occurring right now in XIV once ARR hits.

yes, but there are also other factors involved in that conversion.

1. is the jp and american economy the exact same? no
2. will everything bought in the jp economy have the exact same cost in america after the conversion? no

the point is even with the servers we have now and everyone using the same type of currency prices differ from server to server by wide margins. each server found the middle ground where the price they are willing to sell and the price people are willing to pay for each item.

the same will be true in 2.0. every item in game in the players market will not drop to 10% of the cost it was before. people will have to do the same trial and error to find the new price as they did originally because many things will be changing along with the gil conversion. the biggest thing that is happening along with the conversion is tons of new players which will change the demand for each item. with a change in demand will change the price for each item.

[Claustrum]

If everything would remain the same in 2.0 with just everything gil rewards/npc values/players banks all divided by 10.
Then why change it?
You don't say "Oh everything will remain the same just /10" for no reason, they are changing it for a reason.
To remove gil from the economy.

I'll lose alot of gil but that doesn't bother me.
The new introduction of 2.0 new players is the future of this game.
I wouldn't want any of them to be put off by the difference in wealth between them and older players.

The difference in wealth will be the same. You can think of money as distance. Your income is speed. If you have travelled 100 miles from the start location, you're 100 miles away from anyone who is just now starting. That doesn't change if some guy comes in and says "no, we're changing the units of measure. You're actually just 10 malms away from the start."

So now the new guys are only 10 malms from your current location. But it will take them every bit as long to catch up to you. It matters nothing that 10 is a a smaller number than 100. The distance is not changed. Only the number attached to it.

[darkstarpoet1]

The difference in wealth will be the same. You can think of money as distance. Your income is speed. If you have travelled 100 miles from the start location, you're 100 miles away from anyone who is just now starting. That doesn't change if some guy comes in and says "no, we're changing the units of measure. You're actually just 10 malms away from the start."

So now the new guys are only 10 malms from your current location. But it will take them every bit as long to catch up to you. It matters nothing that 10 is a a smaller number than 100. The distance is not changed. Only the number attached to it.

this is where you are wrong. there are multiple factors changing in 2.0 along with the gil conversion.

i'm going to give a few basic math things to show the difference. these are just random numbers, but show the trends.
let's say there are 100 people in the server now, but with 2.0 that jumps to 1000. the average wealth of those 100 are 5mil. the total wealth in that will be 500mil. the thing is in 2.0 they will drastically increase the demand for items due to the new players, but the overall wealth hasn't increased across the server because when new they start with nothing.

in the new servers you have the "same" wealth as before, but you actually have a completely new economy because with those 900 extra people the demands for each item changes. that effectively changes the needs and demands in the economy completely so the items themselves change in demand. this is why the economy will not be exactly the same. if the conversion was done previous to the 2.0 launch with nothing else changing it would be a straight conversion, but this is not the case so the entire economy will change.

[Wynn]

this is where you are wrong. there are multiple factors changing in 2.0 along with the gil conversion.

i'm going to give a few basic math things to show the difference. these are just random numbers, but show the trends.
let's say there are 100 people in the server now, but with 2.0 that jumps to 1000. the average wealth of those 100 are 5mil. the total wealth in that will be 500mil. the thing is in 2.0 they will drastically increase the demand for items due to the new players, but the overall wealth hasn't increased across the server because when new they start with nothing.

in the new servers you have the "same" wealth as before, but you actually have a completely new economy because with those 900 extra people the demands for each item changes. that effectively changes the needs and demands in the economy completely so the items themselves change in demand. this is why the economy will not be exactly the same. if the conversion was done previous to the 2.0 launch with nothing else changing it would be a straight conversion, but this is not the case so the entire economy will change.

This would happen with or without redenomination. It doesn't change the fact that 10x1 is the exact same result as 1x10.

As far as prices go, we all know they fluctuate but people are crazy if they think they can still get away with selling stuff in ARR for anywhere near the prices they are now.

A. Nobody will be able to afford it, not even established players.

B. Crafters like me who embrace this change will force the more stubborn ones to follow suit by pricing accordingly if they want to sell anything ever again.