Class names, how I feel about my character and it's developement.

[Dubont]

Any ability you may have had to define your character role in FFII is just as present in FFXIV if not moreso.

Final Fantasy VII and VIII had characters that had set weapons and MAYBE the history/personality to go with them, but at the end of the day you could do whatever the hell you wanted with them. If you wanted Cloud to be a Blue Mage or Selphie to be a support mage? you could do that. Want Vincent to be a Black Mage and Squall a Dark Knight? Knock yourself out. You defined what the characters did. There were no set boundaries like in a traditionally rigid system.

The armory system is just an extension of that freedom. Whether you feel that it "ruins" your sense of identity or not, that's purely up to you, but if you want to say nothing like this was ever present in other games in the series, well that's just an outright alteration of fact.

Don't say people "missed the point" because they point out fact. You're starting to sound like you just came here to whine about it.

Again, YOU MISSED THE POINT!!!! I'm not talking about the ability to customize your job. I'm talking about the job itself not being there! A conjurer is not a black mage, nor a white mage and will never be either no matter WHAT you put into it, it will always be a conjurer. Conjurer is NOT a FF class, it's a Rapture class. This, FFXIV, IS NOT RAPTURE!!!! Do you see now? Do you see what I'm getting at? Gladiator, Pugilist, Archer, Lancer, Marauder, Thaumaturge, Conjurer. All of these need to be GONE and replaced with FF classes....jeez...how is this so hard to understand? Again, I'm not talking about customization...I'm talking about the job itself...

[Nephera]

See...that's cool and all and would have been able to fly in "Rapture," but this is Final Fantasy. Why could SE not stick to what made Final Fantasy....Final Fantasy? a few weapons/spells and a few mobs that are in other FFs...that's about it. The biggest thing for me, as I said before, is the classes. This system is awesome, but it's not a Final Fantasy system and that is a big problem for a Final Fantasy game.

not all ff games use the class system, they largely do all have airships and chocobos but we are going to get those eventually. This is not a final fantasy fangame. This is not a game that is largely fanservice like say Dissidia. It is the fourteenth game in the main series, because you didnt play 6,7,8,9,10,or 12 doesnt mean that they are obligated to use the ones they had before and it 100% doesnt mean they are prohibited from making new ones.

BUT on top of all this they are trying to figure out a way to shoehorn in these old classes people love so much so just be patient.


edit: lancer was totally a ff class before this game unless you ignore tactics.

Double edit: Tactics also had jumping.

also to op:

Would it help if gladiators could cast better if they took off their shield? I personally feel like that'd feel red magey.

[Malakhim]

I don't particularly care about your identity crisis. I wasn't even addressing it in the first place.

The point I was making is that contrary to your belief that a "classless" Final Fantasy such as FFXIV has no precedence, there have been several(well-received) entries that are just that.

You're free to lose your shit about your perceptions, but that's all they are.

not all ff games use the class system, they largely do all have airships and chocobos but we are going to get those eventually. This is not a final fantasy fangame. This is not a game that is largely fanservice like say Dissidia. It is the fourteenth game in the main series, because you didnt play 6,7,8,9,10,or 12 doesnt mean that they are obligated to use the ones they had before and it 100% doesnt mean they are prohibited from making new ones.

But you're missing the point.

[Dubont]

I don't particularly care about your identity crisis. I wasn't even addressing it in the first place.

The point I was making is that contrary to your belief that a "classless" Final Fantasy such as FFXIV has no precedence, there have been several(well-received) entries that are just that.

You're free to lose your shit about your perceptions, but that's all they are.



But you're missing the point.

k...you were making a point that some FFs were "classless." My point is that all FFs had a way to make FF classes in the game. 14 does not have that. Lancer can't have jump. There is absolutely no way to make a thief. There is no way to make a monk. There is no way to make a ranger. There is no way to make a red mage. There is no way to make a pure blm...or a pure whm...you'll always be a gimp version...and hell, you won't even be a blackmage. Even if you take all whm spells off of Conjurer and only gave it BLM spells and traits, do you know what you will be? A Con that refuses to do his job. What job is that? Heal mule. The same goes for THM (until a certain point).

[Nephera]

But you're missing the point.

No that was my point, I was just longer and derpier.

[Evenstar]

If Square Enix wanted this game to be so different they shouldn't have called in Final Fantasy in the first place. It is perfectly reasonable that people expect a Final Fantasy feel when a game has the title "Final Fantasy XIV". Another mistake is that they used the same races as in Final Fantasy XI. If they wanted to be so different they shouldn't have done that. It is really reasonable that people expected this to be a next generation Final Fantasy XI

I also agree with what Dubont said. A Lancer can be compared to a Dragoon, but it is not a Dragoon (no wyvern for example). A Gladiator can be compared to a Paladin, but doesn't have the feeling of a Paladin. In Final Fantasy XI I played Paladin from the NA release until a year ago. I loved it, I expected the Gladiator to be something similar and it simply isn't. Now that is not a big deal, since I can get over it and accept the way the classes are, but I totally understand that some people expected more (or still expect more).

[Mr_Gyactus]

k...you were making a point that some FFs were "classless." My point is that all FFs had a way to make FF classes in the game. 14 does not have that. Lancer can't have jump. There is absolutely no way to make a thief. There is no way to make a monk. There is no way to make a ranger. There is no way to make a red mage. There is no way to make a pure blm...or a pure whm...you'll always be a gimp version...and hell, you won't even be a blackmage. Even if you take all whm spells off of Conjurer and only gave it BLM spells and traits, do you know what you will be? A Con that refuses to do his job. What job is that? Heal mule. The same goes for THM (until a certain point).

Define "MONK"

Define "BLACK MAGE"

Define "RANGER".

and you'll have a proper answer.

No! a lancer is not a DRAGOON.
A lancer is a set of skill with lance. what a lot of player is missing is:

the system is sandbox style, not themepark style.
There are not classes and roles well defined because the game it's not done for a single class, but for a set of skills.
They could do as Ultima online, where you had to macros a single skill, they have prefered create "boxes of skills"
Yesterday I was playing as Conjurer with shield skills, debuff from thau, healing and buffes from conjurer and interrupt from melee. It works, and it's fun.

[Evenstar]

You miss the point. FF2 still had a way to define your class as a thf or a blm or a whm or whatever.

7 still had a defined system. Aeris was a whm. Tifa was a mnk. Yuffie was a ninja. It was defined, regardless of what abilities you could customize them with.

8, same thing as 7.

In 14...you can give a Gladiator cure from a conjurer...but that Gladiator won't be a "paladin." You can give a Conjurer cure....but it won't be a "white mage." You can make your Con use fire...but it won't be a "black mage." Do you see what I'm saying?

They will not understand, because they refuse to understand. That is the problem with most of the discussions on the forums here. None is willing to bend and give someone else some space in a discussion. Everyone knows better and everyone is right.

I get your point, since sometimes I have the same feeling. I am not sure if they should do a complete overhaul of the classes, since they have more pressing matters to fix first, but I tottally get your point. Changing the names of the classes wouldn't really help, since you would still have the same abilities. If they want to change the feeling they really have to change the very basic core of the classes and their abilities.

[Dubont]

Define "MONK"

Define "BLACK MAGE"

Define "RANGER".

and you'll have a proper answer.

Archer =/= Ranger. Why? Well one...it's an archer...

Pugilist =/= Monk. Why? One...it's a pugilist. Monks could also use their feet. Pugs cannot. Monks were spiritual and could use Chakra. Pugs are brawlers...

Black Mage =/= Con or Thm. Why? Neither of those say "Black Mage." Black Mages can't use healing spells, most buff spells and can't use light based spells. The opposite goes for a White Mage. Also, the current spells are too under powered to be focused on a specific job. Black Magic Con =/= Black Mage in terms of damage. White Magic Con =/= White Mage in terms of buff power and effectiveness.

[Evenstar]

And in ff7 tifa had a master summon, a master spell and a master tech materia, so Cid, and Cloud. Everyone was able to heal, spam summon, use triple attack. I could give an heal materia to Barret or Yuffie.

In FF14 you have limits in skills and how they work: a thau/conj can use AOE, a pugilist can use hand to hand skills, etcetc, the others cannot.

Do you even read the things you quote? He cleary stated that FF7 had a defined system (like in Aeris as WHM, Tifa as MNK, Yuffie as NIN, regardless of the abilities you could customize them with.

The guy is NOT talking about the armory system in general. It is fine that you can customize your character, but there is no defined class system! Is it really that hard to understand what the guy is trying to say or are you just doing your best to not understand it? He is not asking you to agree with him, none is, but hell you can at least try to understand someone else point of view in a discussion.