Class names, how I feel about my character and it's developement.

[Fiosha_Maureiba]

I love the Red Mage, the class' concept alone is one of my favorites in the FF lore. When I consider how to create my character, I try really hard to make him feel like a red mage.

With the way the armory system works, I need to mix and match classes to get myself to the goal of being a Red Mage. Here is my problem:

I can choose
1. Gladiator / THM
2. Gladiator /CNJ

There are other options like LNC, but regardless I will always have to be a DoW class. Otherwise I cannot use a sword. This gimps my ability to be a magic user in the party, because other "full time" mages will be at an extreme advantage. On top of that, to act as a caster would ignore the potential of whatever DoW class I had chosen.

If I choose to go pure THM/CNJ or CNJ/THM then the idea of being a Red Mage basically goes out the window. I feel this way because Ideally I would want to level up both cnj and thm, and even if I pick one "main" and leave the other at some arbitrary level, I still feel like a generic "mage"

The spells I have don't make me think of a red mage, or any white/black/blue mage for that matter. They are just spells, and the class becomes a generic "mage" which does everything. At that point I get very bored of my character development.

I don't know of an obvious solution or answer to this problem. Because all the people who are saying "just mix and match skills bro!" really seem to misunderstand the way I feel. I don't feel like a red mage.

IMO please change the class names and skills available to each. The roles that are currently going on right now seem rather boring and are too easily interchanged. I want to know that I am a Red Mage for a reason, I want to know that I chose to level up a certain class/way that fits what I was intending on doing. Not to be given the generic "everything" mold and just use my imagination to pretend that I am a Red Mage!

Please feel free to comment on the dev 1033 and 1032, or classes and their abilities in general. this thread is somewhat me just venting... But I would love to see other people's opinions on the matter.

Hi OP.

I can see how not having the traditional class system found in FF1, 3, 5, and 11 can be a concern.

I'm looking at more the FF1 implementation of Red Mage, where these guys could use swords, hammers, some shields I think, most armor up to plate, learned spells at a slower pace, because they didn't get the higher level MP at the same time as a dedicated mage (had less of it and had to typically decide which three spells he wanted to take per spell level out of a selection of eight).

Although back then, it also seemed like attributes like INT, didn't affect magic potency, at most, just how much MP you got and when.

A swordsman who can use combat and support magic, but does not excel in any area. Although here, if you choose Gladiator was your lead role, you will be an excellent swordsman augmented by magic. Though magic potency will not be as powerful (I imagine if affinities for the same class can be stacked, that this could resolve your magic potency concern, but not address the AoE of it).

And as is the case now, forging your role in a party (which in a large party is drowned out, in a party consisting of tank, striker, healer, and you - you would be able to support any of the three allies. Where you may end up casting Burn where the striker casts Fire and you (or tank) follow up with Red Lotus.

I apologize in advance for my insane optimism.

[Nephera]

Man what classes were red XIII and vincent and cait sith.

[Dubont]

Man what classes were red XIII and vincent and cait sith.

Warrior, Ranger and Bard. They were a variation of the classes, but still easily recognizable.

[Mr_Gyactus]

Do you even read the things you quote? He cleary stated that FF7 had a defined system (like in Aeris as WHM, Tifa as MNK, Yuffie as NIN, regardless of the abilities you could customize them with.

The guy is NOT talking about the armory system in general. It is fine that you can customize your character, but there is no defined class system! Is it really that hard to understand what the guy is trying to say or are you just doing your best to not understand it? He is not asking you to agree with him, none is, but hell you can at least try to understand someone else point of view in a discussion.

I read but eventually is so difficult to accept I don't agree what the OP say.

Why can you define yuffie a ninja? Because she equip a shuriken and roleplay a ninja? Why can you define tifa, because her "attack" button uses punch? for their costumes?

Don't judge the book by its cover. If we are talking about clothes or better, textures, ok. but how you can read from his reply, we are not talking about that.

Archer =/= Ranger. Why? Well one...it's an archer...

Pugilist =/= Monk. Why? One...it's a pugilist. Monks could also use their feet. Pugs cannot. Monks were spiritual and could use Chakra. Pugs are brawlers...

Black Mage =/= Con or Thm. Why? Neither of those say "Black Mage." Black Mages can't use healing spells, most buff spells and can't use light based spells. The opposite goes for a White Mage. Also, the current spells are too under powered to be focused on a specific job. Black Magic Con =/= Black Mage in terms of damage. White Magic Con =/= White Mage in terms of buff power and effectiveness.

I don't remember Tifa dealing more damage with punches than Aerith for example.
No one force you to equip an healing skill, and you can raise only int and piety, to deal more damage than a healer (who need to raise mind). And healing from Barrett or Auron was strong as from Aerith or Yuna or Lulu.

[Dubont]

I read but eventually is so difficult to accept I don't agree what the OP say.

Why can you define yuffie a ninja? Because she equip a shuriken and roleplay a ninja? Why can you define tifa, because her "attack" button uses punch? for their costumes?

Don't judge the book by its cover. If we are talking about clothes or better, textures, ok. but how you can read from his reply, we are not talking about that.

going off of basic attacks, weapon choices, ability sets without customization and how the character is essentially played. Also: "Yuffie Kisaragi is a secret playable character in Final Fantasy VII. She is a Ninja and a Thief." "Tifa’s stats were designed around the Monk character class from previous Final Fantasy games."

[solracht]

So what you're saying is someone that transforms into a behemoth and Chaos (while being able to summon, cast magic, and use Steal) is a variation of Ranger, but Archer isn't?

I'm saying this fully supporting FF jobs for FFXIV, and understanding that they're a staple in the FF saga for a lot of people, but you're seeing the things you want: A lot of FFs didn't have traditional classes (almost half of them, to be specific), no matter how you want to see it. FFXIV is not different in this regard.

And again, I support FF jobs.

[Dubont]

So what you're saying is someone that transforms into a behemoth and chaos (while being able to summon, cast magic, and use Steal) is a variation of Ranger, but Archer isn't?

I'm saying this fully supporting FF jobs for FFXIV, and understanding that they're a staple in the FF saga for a lot of people, but you're seeing the things you want: A lot of FFs didn't have traditional classes (almost half of them, to be specific), no matter how you want to see it. FFXIV is not different in this regard.

And again, I support FF jobs.

That is an ability of his as an individual, not an ability of his job. Much like Cloud's Omnislash and Meteorain. It is unique to them as characters, not in accordance to their class.

[solracht]

Why is it that stripping Aeris out of every White Mage spell in the game (except for Holy, I guess) makes it acceptable for you to call her a White Mage variation, but getting rid of Kick-based skills for Pugilist doesn't make it okay for them to be a Monk variation?

Why are we sticking to FFVII? There's also FFII, FFVI, FFVIII, FFX, FFXII and FFXIII.

Again, I fully understand it's considered a FF staple, but it doesn't change the fact that what FFXIV did (adding FF skills to a lot of non-FF containers) has been done a lot of times in the series. I'm only arguing against the way you're trying to make us see things, rather than against how you think they should be in FFXIV (which I agree with).

[Dubont]

Why is it that stripping Aeris out of every White Mage spell in the game (except for Holy, I guess) makes it acceptable for you to call her a White Mage variation, but getting rid of Kick-based skills for Pugilist doesn't make it okay for them to be a Monk variation?

Why are we sticking to FFVII? There's also FFII, FFVI, FFVIII, FFX, FFXII and FFXIII.

Again, I fully understand it's considered a FF staple, but it doesn't change the fact that what FFXIV did (adding FF skills to a lot of non-FF containers) has been done a lot of times in the series. I'm only arguing against the way you're trying to make us see things, rather than against how you think they should be in FFXIV (which I agree with).

We've been over this. Aeris is based off of a whm and as such, IS, essentially, a whm.
FF2 = you could make a white mage class
FF6 = there were classes there...or are you blind?
FFX = read FF6
FF12= I'll give you that one
FF13 = there were classes that were easy to distinguish, but I feel like they were the transition into what we have now. The classes were easy to see, but they were not FF classes. This is a problem for a FF game.

[Arcell]

How is Ranger not Archer? Seriously how is it not? Don't say "Because it's not called Ranger", that's just arguing its name. That's not the point. Ranger and Archer are almost synonymous. What skills does a Ranger in one game have that Archer in this game doesn't? Are they class-defining abilities?

You can certainly make a black mage, you just have to mix and match skills to make it. It's not called "Black Mage" by name but that's not the point.