Class names, how I feel about my character and it's developement.

[Dubont]

It does. FF7, FF8, FF10, FF12... the black sheep is ff9 in 15 years of games, and it was probably the worse FF for play1.

Uhm...what? Every FF game, aside from 12 and 13(to an extent) had very distinct classes. Even in 13, the classes were not hard to tell 1 from the other in terms of what they were supposed to be. Ravager was BLM, Sent was a type of Paladin, etc etc. 12 of course didn't have classes. It had a system similar to 14's....which is not cool at all.

[Malakhim]

Uhm...what? Every FF game, aside from 12 and 13(to an extent) had very distinct classes. Even in 13, the classes were not hard to tell 1 from the other in terms of what they were supposed to be. Ravager was BLM, Sent was a type of Paladin, etc etc. 12 of course didn't have classes. It had a system similar to 14's....which is not cool at all.

Incorrect.

Final Fantasy II had no rigid class system. Growth was similar to that of a SaGa game, and of course it did being that Akitoshi Kawazu was one of the lead designers on it. The idea for a "weapon skill level" in FFXI probably emerged from here as well.

Final Fantasy VII had a materia system in which you customized your character abilities based on materia equiped. There was no rigid class system.

Final Fantasy VIII had a junction system in which you customized your character abilities based on Gaurdian Forces(GF) equiped. There was no rigid class system.

Read up on your FF history.

[Dubont]

Incorrect.

Final Fantasy II had no rigid class system. Growth was similar to that of a SaGa game, and of course it did being that Akitoshi Kawazu was one of the lead designers on it. The idea for a "weapon skill level" in FFXI probably emerged from here as well.

Final Fantasy VII had a materia system in which you customized your character abilities based on materia equiped. There was no rigid class system.

Final Fantasy VIII had a junction system in which you customized your character abilities based on Gaurdian Forces(GF) equiped. There was no rigid class system.

Read up on your FF history.

You miss the point. FF2 still had a way to define your class as a thf or a blm or a whm or whatever.

7 still had a defined system. Aeris was a whm. Tifa was a mnk. Yuffie was a ninja. It was defined, regardless of what abilities you could customize them with.

8, same thing as 7.

In 14...you can give a Gladiator cure from a conjurer...but that Gladiator won't be a "paladin." You can give a Conjurer cure....but it won't be a "white mage." You can make your Con use fire...but it won't be a "black mage." Do you see what I'm saying?

[Mr_Gyactus]

You miss the point. FF2 still had a way to define your class as a thf or a blm or a whm or whatever.

7 still had a defined system. Aeris was a whm. Tifa was a mnk. Yuffie was a ninja. It was defined, regardless of what abilities you could customize them with.

8, same thing as 7.

In 14...you can give a Gladiator cure from a conjurer...but that Gladiator won't be a "paladin." You can give a Conjurer cure....but it won't be a "white mage." You can make your Con use fire...but it won't be a "black mage." Do you see what I'm saying?

And in ff7 tifa had a master summon, a master spell and a master tech materia, so Cid, and Cloud. Everyone was able to heal, spam summon, use triple attack. I could give an heal materia to Barret or Yuffie.

In FF14 you have limits in skills and how they work: a thau/conj can use AOE, a pugilist can use hand to hand skills, etcetc, the others cannot.

[Evenstar]

And in ff7 tifa had a master summon, a master spell and a master tech materia, so Cid, and Cloud. Everyone was able to heal, spam summon, use triple attack. I could give an heal materia to Barret or Yuffie.

In FF14 you have limits in skills and how they work: a thau/conj can use AOE, a pugilist can use hand to hand skills, etcetc, the others cannot.

Do you even read the things you quote? He cleary stated that FF7 had a defined system (like in Aeris as WHM, Tifa as MNK, Yuffie as NIN, regardless of the abilities you could customize them with.

The guy is NOT talking about the armory system in general. It is fine that you can customize your character, but there is no defined class system! Is it really that hard to understand what the guy is trying to say or are you just doing your best to not understand it? He is not asking you to agree with him, none is, but hell you can at least try to understand someone else point of view in a discussion.

[Mr_Gyactus]

Do you even read the things you quote? He cleary stated that FF7 had a defined system (like in Aeris as WHM, Tifa as MNK, Yuffie as NIN, regardless of the abilities you could customize them with.

The guy is NOT talking about the armory system in general. It is fine that you can customize your character, but there is no defined class system! Is it really that hard to understand what the guy is trying to say or are you just doing your best to not understand it? He is not asking you to agree with him, none is, but hell you can at least try to understand someone else point of view in a discussion.

I read but eventually is so difficult to accept I don't agree what the OP say.

Why can you define yuffie a ninja? Because she equip a shuriken and roleplay a ninja? Why can you define tifa, because her "attack" button uses punch? for their costumes?

Don't judge the book by its cover. If we are talking about clothes or better, textures, ok. but how you can read from his reply, we are not talking about that.

Archer =/= Ranger. Why? Well one...it's an archer...

Pugilist =/= Monk. Why? One...it's a pugilist. Monks could also use their feet. Pugs cannot. Monks were spiritual and could use Chakra. Pugs are brawlers...

Black Mage =/= Con or Thm. Why? Neither of those say "Black Mage." Black Mages can't use healing spells, most buff spells and can't use light based spells. The opposite goes for a White Mage. Also, the current spells are too under powered to be focused on a specific job. Black Magic Con =/= Black Mage in terms of damage. White Magic Con =/= White Mage in terms of buff power and effectiveness.

I don't remember Tifa dealing more damage with punches than Aerith for example.
No one force you to equip an healing skill, and you can raise only int and piety, to deal more damage than a healer (who need to raise mind). And healing from Barrett or Auron was strong as from Aerith or Yuna or Lulu.

[Dubont]

I read but eventually is so difficult to accept I don't agree what the OP say.

Why can you define yuffie a ninja? Because she equip a shuriken and roleplay a ninja? Why can you define tifa, because her "attack" button uses punch? for their costumes?

Don't judge the book by its cover. If we are talking about clothes or better, textures, ok. but how you can read from his reply, we are not talking about that.

going off of basic attacks, weapon choices, ability sets without customization and how the character is essentially played. Also: "Yuffie Kisaragi is a secret playable character in Final Fantasy VII. She is a Ninja and a Thief." "Tifa’s stats were designed around the Monk character class from previous Final Fantasy games."

[Malakhim]

You miss the point. FF2 still had a way to define your class as a thf or a blm or a whm or whatever.

7 still had a defined system. Aeris was a whm. Tifa was a mnk. Yuffie was a ninja. It was defined, regardless of what abilities you could customize them with.

8, same thing as 7.

In 14...you can give a Gladiator cure from a conjurer...but that Gladiator won't be a "paladin." You can give a Conjurer cure....but it won't be a "white mage." You can make your Con use fire...but it won't be a "black mage." Do you see what I'm saying?

Any ability you may have had to define your character role in FFII is just as present in FFXIV if not moreso.

Final Fantasy VII and VIII had characters that had set weapons and MAYBE the history/personality to go with them, but at the end of the day you could do whatever the hell you wanted with them. If you wanted Cloud to be a Blue Mage or Selphie to be a support mage? you could do that. Want Vincent to be a Black Mage and Squall a Dark Knight? Knock yourself out. You defined what the characters did. There were no set boundaries like in a traditionally rigid system.

The armory system is just an extension of that freedom. Whether you feel that it "ruins" your sense of identity or not, that's purely up to you, but if you want to say nothing like this was ever present in other games in the series, well that's just an outright alteration of fact.

Don't say people "missed the point" because they point out fact. You're starting to sound like you just came here to whine about it.

[Dubont]

Any ability you may have had to define your character role in FFII is just as present in FFXIV if not moreso.

Final Fantasy VII and VIII had characters that had set weapons and MAYBE the history/personality to go with them, but at the end of the day you could do whatever the hell you wanted with them. If you wanted Cloud to be a Blue Mage or Selphie to be a support mage? you could do that. Want Vincent to be a Black Mage and Squall a Dark Knight? Knock yourself out. You defined what the characters did. There were no set boundaries like in a traditionally rigid system.

The armory system is just an extension of that freedom. Whether you feel that it "ruins" your sense of identity or not, that's purely up to you, but if you want to say nothing like this was ever present in other games in the series, well that's just an outright alteration of fact.

Don't say people "missed the point" because they point out fact. You're starting to sound like you just came here to whine about it.

Again, YOU MISSED THE POINT!!!! I'm not talking about the ability to customize your job. I'm talking about the job itself not being there! A conjurer is not a black mage, nor a white mage and will never be either no matter WHAT you put into it, it will always be a conjurer. Conjurer is NOT a FF class, it's a Rapture class. This, FFXIV, IS NOT RAPTURE!!!! Do you see now? Do you see what I'm getting at? Gladiator, Pugilist, Archer, Lancer, Marauder, Thaumaturge, Conjurer. All of these need to be GONE and replaced with FF classes....jeez...how is this so hard to understand? Again, I'm not talking about customization...I'm talking about the job itself...

[Evenstar]

You miss the point. FF2 still had a way to define your class as a thf or a blm or a whm or whatever.

7 still had a defined system. Aeris was a whm. Tifa was a mnk. Yuffie was a ninja. It was defined, regardless of what abilities you could customize them with.

8, same thing as 7.

In 14...you can give a Gladiator cure from a conjurer...but that Gladiator won't be a "paladin." You can give a Conjurer cure....but it won't be a "white mage." You can make your Con use fire...but it won't be a "black mage." Do you see what I'm saying?

They will not understand, because they refuse to understand. That is the problem with most of the discussions on the forums here. None is willing to bend and give someone else some space in a discussion. Everyone knows better and everyone is right.

I get your point, since sometimes I have the same feeling. I am not sure if they should do a complete overhaul of the classes, since they have more pressing matters to fix first, but I tottally get your point. Changing the names of the classes wouldn't really help, since you would still have the same abilities. If they want to change the feeling they really have to change the very basic core of the classes and their abilities.