Gear Score, in my ARR?

[Zumi]

I liked gearscore in WoW because it would give me quick access to be able to tell if a player was capable of doing a raid or not. Because they have DPS checks to beat enrage timers a certain level of gear was required. It was very helpful in telling if a person would be able to put out the numbers required. Without it pugging raids would of been much harder.

Bilzzared eventually put in their own version of gearscore in the actual UI simply called Average ilvl (item level). They set a minimum ilvl to queue up for dungeons with dungeon finder or raids with raid finder. I am guessing ARR needs something similar for the content finder because you wouldn't want someone to join your group that would make it impossible for you to be successful due to really bad gear.

[Allcars]

I liked gearscore in WoW because it would give me quick access to be able to tell if a player was capable of doing a raid or not. Because they have DPS checks to beat enrage timers a certain level of gear was required. It was very helpful in telling if a person would be able to put out the numbers required. Without it pugging raids would of been much harder.

While in general that is true, gear doesn't make a good player, a bad player with good gear is still a bad player. A good player with alright gear could out dps a bad player with the good gear.

It is hard to judge player skill, but when you bring up gearscore people only rely on gearscore.

I think having a system where it locks you out of a dungeon because mathematically you won't be able to do the content is fine. As long as the community doesn't control what is available. I am alright with a scoring system.

[HiirNoivl]

Zumi, what did WoW do for healing classes?

As long as the community doesn't control what is available. I am alright with a scoring system.

Yeah a comprehenisve gear scoring system along with safe guards to prevent abuse? I'm onboard. I'm onboard.

[Zumi]

Zumi, what did WoW do for healing classes?



Yeah a comprehenisve gear scoring system along with safe guards to prevent abuse? I'm onboard. I'm onboard.

As the raids get harder in WoW over various patchs your healers need better gear to keep up with higher incoming damage from bosses. Main healing stats would be, INT (more Mana and bigger heals), Spirit (Mana Regen), Haste (faster casts), (crit, chance for a heal to crit and do more healing).

As gear got better the number of stats on them were higher. Couldn't go into like the a final tier expansion raid with a healer who just hit level cap without any raid gear because it would be impossible for them to be successful, they would either, run out of mana, not have enough INT to heal incoming damage, or the mana regain to sustain themselves throughout the fight.

[Allcars]

As the raids get harder in WoW over various patchs your healers need better gear to keep up with higher incoming damage from bosses. Main healing stats would be, INT (more Mana and bigger heals), Spirit (Mana Regen), Haste (faster casts), (crit, chance for a heal to crit and do more healing).

As gear got better the number of stats on them were higher. Couldn't go into like the a final tier expansion raid with a healer who just hit level cap without any raid gear because it would be impossible for them to be successful, they would either, run out of mana, not have enough INT to heal incoming damage, or the mana regain to sustain themselves throughout the fight.

Yeah so having dungeon requirements on gear before you can enter is alright with me, but when you have players telling you can't go to the raid because your gear isn't good enough, but the gear you would get from that raid wouldn't even match that gearscore this group is requesting for.

[Zumi]

Yeah so having dungeon requirements on gear before you can enter is alright with me, but when you have players telling you can't go to the raid because your gear isn't good enough, but the gear you would get from that raid wouldn't even match that gearscore this group is requesting for.

From what I seen people who do that are making the raid because, A. they want to be carried and don't have the gear themselves. B. They are farming the zone for some legendary quest items which they want to reserve for themselves, in addition they want the run to go fast so people helping them must have better gear then the zone drops. People who do this really don't get that many people to join their group because they usually get called out in the trade chat channel for asking for a higher ilvl then the zone drops.

With dungeon finder and raid finder Blizzard sets the entry ilvl to queue up about 12 item levels below what the zone drops. This can't be changed by players so as long as they meet the requirements they can get a group.

[HiirNoivl]

Yeah so having dungeon requirements on gear before you can enter is alright with me, but when you have players telling you can't go to the raid because your gear isn't good enough, but the gear you would get from that raid wouldn't even match that gearscore this group is requesting for.

Yeah but then again, that's what Linkshells are for. You can't make a pickup party and start putting dumb demands on people. That's just... dumb...

Anyway, another benefit to this idea of a gear score requirement of certain content, is that it actually gives some guidence on the content. Right now, we're pretty much on our own to figure out exactly what gear is best for what content. And someone who is new to the game won't waste gil on gear that won't give them the points they need. It would make it easier on them

Some people might get upset that this may box in the community when it comes to "creative" clearing of content (like swimsuit runs wouldn't work under this scenario.)

[Ricky]

People will misuse any tool given to them, you can't blame the tool for the actions of the one using it. Of course people will have inflated requirements for dungeons and whatnot based on the gear score but that is just the player being an idiot. I think it's a very useful tool to at a glance see if someone has completed the previous content and gotten gear from it to help them with the current, or to see if they have put any effort into being the best they can.

[Antipika]

People will misuse any tool given to them, you can't blame the tool for the actions of the one using it. Of course people will have inflated requirements for dungeons and whatnot based on the gear score but that is just the player being an idiot. I think it's a very useful tool to at a glance see if someone has completed the previous content and gotten gear from it to help them with the current, or to see if they have put any effort into being the best they can.

You use achievement check for completion, not gear score. You could have completed something 10 times and never got the stuff you wanted. Especially with the SQUARE ENIX© Low Drop Rate™ system.

Achievement check is even better because it usually enable people to check for Speedruns and Flawless victory achievement (typical achievements "Kill boss without a member of the raid dying" / "Kill boss within X minutes"). If you are a part of a flawless victory achievement run, even if you get carried through, it still means that you are aware of mechanics. That, combined with gear score, there is little to no chance to have a bad player.

Off course even a good player can be bad on a specific day. Act like an a**hole, etc. Those are just technical checks. Predicting Human behavior a set time cannot be done (yet :d).

[Duelle]

You use achievement check for completion, not gear score. You could have completed something 10 times and never got the stuff you wanted. Especially with the SQUARE ENIX© Low Drop Rate™ system.

Achievement check is even better because it usually enable people to check for Speedruns and Flawless victory achievement (typical achievements "Kill boss without a member of the raid dying" / "Kill boss within X minutes"). If you are a part of a flawless victory achievement run, even if you get carried through, it still means that you are aware of mechanics. That, combined with gear score, there is little to no chance to have a bad player.

Off course even a good player can be bad on a specific day. Act like an a**hole, etc. Those are just technical checks. Predicting Human behavior a set time cannot be done (yet :d).

I think Ricky's point was more along the lines that elitism will happen regardless of how much you try to stem it. The key difference in games where it doesnt run rampant is that rather than stem elitism, it herds it to a specific spot where the decisions seem most logical.

That's what creates the difference between the multiple bottlenecks in leveling in FFXI and the non-existant bottlenecks in leveling in WoW. The same amount of elitism, but exp/hour e-peen measuring was instead relocated to endgame in the form of DPS meters, threat meters and gear score.