How Many Would Have Rather Seen RDM than SMN

[Firon]

By your logic in the bolded sentence, they should have avoided Summoner like the plague because it wasn't so hot in a previous title (XI). You can't judge what a class is going to be based on what it was in previous iterations. If you played FF titles before VII, the redmage option was usually pretty kickass to have around. It swung a sword just as well as a warrior, with the benefit of having cures/nukes if the situation arose where you needed them more than another sword. If they go about designing it properly, it could be worth having around, and I mean as more than just a refresh/haste whore, in XIV.

By that same token, SMN, which has been a proven performer, could be held back (once again) by poor design. Or it could be as amazing as it's previous iterations. I won't likely be playing it, but all the same I hope for the latter. I'm not going to wish ill on anyone's favored job. But, the only way to know will be to check it out in 2.0.

While smn wasn't a end all job in XI it was still good. and SMN being kinda weak in one game doesn't make up for the rdm being weak in all of them.

[Wynn]

RDM isn't weak in all of them... just XI. And really... not even that. That's just player perception.

Could a weak class solo crap that other classes need a party for? I think not.

[SwordCoheir]

Edit: @ NefGP - I think the bigger problem with RDM meelee was it's B- sword/dagger skill. You could never make up for that, even with Merits. The fact that even in the hands of a job with A grade skill sword WS were lackluster didn't help either.

It was actually a plethora of problems on both the mage and melee side that hurt RDM badly. You could say one side is a little bad like B level sword/dagger skill and nobody would say anything because their mindset was "eh it's just one little problem no biggie every job as a few", but the problem was there were too damn many "one little problems".

Like:
-Poor Merit Selection, and under powered merit spells.
-RDMs "niche" in enfeebling lacks any real exclusive spells outside of Gravity II and poor merit spells.
-Enfeebles were often straight resisted by anything worth a damn.
-Had a ridiculous amount of 3 minute single target and self-buff spells, so even if RDM had good offensive capabilities it was severely hindered by constant casting/recasting.
-There were no weapons that gave the benefits of the Elemental staff affinities, you essentially were married to staves.
-No physically offensive traits.
-Only one physically offensive Job ability.
-Role was often based solely on subjob.
-No powerful weaponskills form Swords.
-No powerful Daggers outside of Mandau (till recently mind you).
-2h update completely obliterated 1h capacity to melee.
-Damage from 1h and 2h weapons continues to grow wider apart.
-RDM Enhancing spells scaled poorly.
-T2 Enspells are flat out broken.

And the Big one...

-Magic and Physical aspects were kept completely separate from one another.

And when SE tried to force the magic part onto the physical like with T2 Enspells you either had to bring down your Physical damage to make your Enspells stronger or bring down your Enspell damage to make your Physical side stronger it was a very lose-lose situation. The fact BLU really shined is because it's physical and magical properties are tied within each other in a harmony that SE should have taken a hint from and applied to RDM which is in need of a major revamp.

This of course doesn't discount the fact FFXI's developers have mostly left the job untouched for 8 years, had a knack for shooting down any worthwhile ideas to fix RDM, and often going one step further to rub salt in the wound when they give those ideas to other jobs who are already in a secure position like WHM or new jobs like GEO.

[JillyBean]

Not me.

/10char

[Duelle]

Erm...how can you say this:

No more pink mage/refresh whore please.

And then suggest this:

- Refresh: Recovers MP over time (spell, targetable)
- Regain: Recovers TP over time (spell, targetable)

While it needs tweaks, I personally like this version better:

Fencer
魔法剣士 (lit. "Magic Swordsman")

Fencers are frontline casters who specialize in the use of mystical spellswords. Wielding magics as deftly as their blades, they posses the ability to both debilitate their enemies and bolster their allies as needed.


Abilities

Lv Ability Name
Description


1 Expose
Delivers a melee attack. Chance to decrease defense and magic defense, up to a maximum of three stacks.

2 Water Brand
Deals water damage. Fulfills the combo conditions of your next spell.
Combo Action: Manastrike
Combo Bonus: Converts your attacks into water attacks.

4 Runic
Absorbs the next magic attack and restores MP when an attack is absorbed. Effect fades upon absorption or after a certain period of time elapses.

6 Life Brand
Delivers a ranged attack and restores the HP of nearby allies.
Combo Action: Manastrike
Combo Bonus: Grants your attacks an HP restore effect.

10 Blood Price
Pay the cost of your next attack or spell with HP.

14 Manastrike
Delivers a melee attack and restores MP.

18 Thunder Brand
Deals lightning damage. Fulfills the combo conditions of your next spell.
Combo Action: Manastrike
Combo Bonus: Converts your attacks into lightning attacks.

22 Featherblow
Delivers a melee strike at high accuracy.
Combo Action: Expose
Combo Bonus: Grants a TP bonus.

26 Earth Brand
Deals earth damage. Fulfills the combo conditions of your next spell.
Combo Action: Manastrike
Combo Bonus: Converts your attacks into earth attacks.

30 Subdue
Delivers a melee attack. Chance to inflict Pacification when executed from in front of the target.
Combo Action: Expose
Combo Bonus: Removes an enhancement from the target.

34 Infuse
Converts MP into TP. TP does not diminish out of combat while effect is active.

38 Wind Brand
Deals wind damage. Fulfills the combo conditions of your next spell.
Combo Action: Manastrike
Combo Bonus: Converts your attacks into wind attacks.

42 Ice Brand
Deals ice damage. Fulfills the combo conditions of your next spell.
Combo Action: Manastrike
Combo Bonus: Converts your attacks into ice attacks.

46 Fire Brand
Deals fire damage. Fulfills the combo conditions of your next spell.
Combo Action: Manastrike
Combo Bonus: Converts your attacks into fire attacks.

50 Checkmate
Delivers an unavoidable melee attack.
Combo Action: Featherblow
Combo Bonus: Increased critical rate.



Traits

Lv Trait Name


8 Enhanced Physical Accuracy

12 Enhanced Magic Accuracy

16 Swift Runic
Halves the recast of Runic, resulting in it lasting its entire cooldown.

20 Auto-Refresh

24 Enhanced Magic Potency

28 Greater Healing

32 Enhanced Blood Price
Also reduces the cost of the attack by 50%.

36 Enhanced Parry

40 Swift Infuse
Halves the cooldown of Infuse.

44 Enhanced Physical Attack Power

48 Enhanced Manastrike
Makes Manastrike a ranged attack.




Red Mage
赤魔道士

Red Mages are powerful casters capable of wielding both offensive and restorative magic. Sacrificing physical attack power, the Red Mage gains MP and additional versatility in battle.


Abilities

Lv Ability Name
Description


30 Magic Sword
Casts level 2 magic based on the Red Mage's current spell brand.
Fire Brand ⇒ Fira
Ice Brand ⇒ Blizzara
Thunder Brand ⇒ Thundara
Water Brand ⇒ Watera
Earth Brand ⇒ Stonera
Wind Brand ⇒ Aerora
Life Brand ⇒ Cura

35 Altruism
Grants a bonus to healing magic potency. Reduces enmity generated by actions while effect is active. Effect fades over time and upon reuse. Cannot be used simultaneously with Composure or Malevolence.

40 Composure
Grants a bonus to maximum health. Increases enmity generated by actions while effect is active. Effect fades over time and upon reuse. Cannot be used simultaneously with Altruism or Malevolence.

45 Malevolence
Grants a bonus to attack magic potency and physical attack power. Effect fades over time and upon reuse. Cannot be used simultaneously with Altruism or Composure.

50 Chainspell
Removes cast time and recast time of all spells.

[Levian]

Like:
-Poor Merit Selection, and under powered merit spells.
-RDMs "niche" in enfeebling lacks any real exclusive spells outside of Gravity II and poor merit spells.
-Enfeebles were often straight resisted by anything worth a damn.
-Had a ridiculous amount of 3 minute single target and self-buff spells, so even if RDM had good offensive capabilities it was severely hindered by constant casting/recasting.
-There were no weapons that gave the benefits of the Elemental staff affinities, you essentially were married to staves.
-No physically offensive traits.
-Only one physically offensive Job ability.
-Role was often based solely on subjob.
-No powerful weaponskills form Swords.
-No powerful Daggers outside of Mandau (till recently mind you).
-2h update completely obliterated 1h capacity to melee.
-Damage from 1h and 2h weapons continues to grow wider apart.
-RDM Enhancing spells scaled poorly.
-T2 Enspells are flat out broken.

And the Big one...

-Magic and Physical aspects were kept completely separate from one another.

In terms of sheer meelee capacity a lot of this can be scrapped. Anything regarding enfeebling would be moot anyway, like you said anything important resists it all. But you want to be swinging your sword not casting anyway. That brings us to the buffs it had. Aside from refresh, someone else should be taking care of those if you're in a meelee slot. Elemental staff affinities: Probably shouldn't be relevant either if they were to bend the rules of their system for rdm's combat spells. Far as the 2H update, I don't recall them changing 1 handers, correct me there if I'm wrong. Even if they did, until Abyssea it wasn't that big a spread. I'll admit that I don't know the state of the game now. I haven't played since about 6 months after WotG's release.

As for things relevant to meelee, we'll start with skill cap. B grade, 250 for dagger & Sword. Most other 1h cap at A-, or 269. That's 19 points of accuracy, and if I remember the ratio properly, 57 points of attack you won't have. Merits won't close that gap, because the people you'd compete with will have those too. Same for gear & food (Even if the gear were available). That to me was always the largest hurdle the job faced. Everything else is a matter of adding some gear and tweaking some mechanics.

You could introduce WS that are worthwhile and RDM only. The enhancing spells could make up for the weaker weapons the job is afforded. You can even circumvent the magic-physical relationship by making RDM's meelee enhancing spells dole out a static number that can't be resisted, but can do extra damage to a mob with an elemental weakness, so you don't have to sacrifice Meelee power to buff up your enhancing spells.

Throw in a couple of tiers and maybe some merits for the enhancement spells and your scaling issue is fixed. If there's room for it, toss RDM a meritable magic based strike that can't be resisted (or is resisted less frequently) and deals the same type of elemental damage as your current Enh spell and you're giving Blu a run for it's money.

The first step to making it viable though, would be to close the 19 point skill gap and put it on a level plain with the competition.

[Grey_Cain]

Can we just not have FFXI's RDM. I loved RDM in XI, I really did. But it was little more than half a WHM and half a BLM with a little sprinkling of melee on top that didn't really add any substance. I want RDM to be unique, without being chained to the ideas that XI instilled. Drop Refresh/Convert, drop En-spells, and drop the focus on enfeebling. And, just because, drop the sword, the staff, the dagger and the wand. Make them ranged or leave them melee, but do something new with the weapon at the very least because the sword/staff combo is so completely polarised as Melee-Only and Magic-Only that they can't even begin to work together.

Give them a balance of stats so that they can be as effective as both an attacker or a caster over time, even if their immediate numbers aren't great. Give them abilities that let them use both their magic and their attacks at the same time (not like En-s that were just there to give a boost to melee damage numbers, but like adding real spells from an otherwise ordinary spell list to their attacks), or let them rain down spells with their melee attacks; I'm envisioning area effects both healing and damage-wise with the target as the center of the effect, with sub-targeting for single target attacks/heals.

In XI, Red Mage was shown to be a pale imitation of more focused jobs where their few stand-out abilities were their only unique abilities. In XIV, please let them be something unique that isn't half a job combined with another half a job. Don't limit them to being underpowered just because they're versatile, but don't let them fill a single role better than any role-specific job either. I can't support a Red Mage that isn't more than the sum of its parts, but I can't justify one that makes another job obsolete either.

[Jinrya-Geki]

I figured Rdm never got a main character role because of all the crap he had to deal with blm and relised he'd have to deal with all the worlds problem + black mage if he were the main character said he said screw it.

[Lum]

Can we just not have both? But really though smn is way more important to have if you want that extra final fantasy feel to newcomers. Its alot more popular and i think it was a good decision to release smn before rdm.

[Jinrya-Geki]

I would love both, and more. I would like atleats 3 new class/jobs for disciple of magic before they even think of adding new Disciples of war.