How Many Would Have Rather Seen RDM than SMN

[NefGP]

Not me. They clearly needed a ranged, magic and pet class in the game. Summoner takes care of two of the three and is a smart decision.

All they've said is they just feel there aren't enough mages yet. I'm reserving judgment on SMN until I actually see it in action, as I wasn't particularly keen on seeing a repeat of FFXI and much more in favor of the traditional offline style of play - strategic use of summons (due to large MP costs) to swing the tide of battle in the party's favor with various flashy and extremely powerful effects. Of course, the typical response I see to that is you'd be killing BLM, but BLM has always been designed for steady, high impact attacks - SMN might be able to out damage a BLM in a single shot, but a BLM will always win out in MP efficiency vs a single target - that's the whole point. SMN is utility, BLM is for making shit dead.


Anyway. I just hope they don't gimp SMN in this like they did in XI. The job's gotten better since Abyssea, but it's still been flawed since it's inception. I'm really hoping SMN can still use things like Hellfire & Aerial Blast, maybe just not as powerful as they would be coming from the actual Primal. Please, just don't rehash Astral Flow... nobody wants that.


As far as RDM is concerned, I never really cared for the direction they took the job in with XI, and I sincerely hope they are rethinking it from when they asked in the polls - We sorely do need more enfeebling skills, but I think we'd be better served spread it out between WHM & BLM, and possibly DRK if it's ever added.

No more pink mage/refresh whore please. If you bring RDM back, at least try to make it similar to how BLU was done? BLU was much better designed as a "Fighter-Mage", and Red Wizard (FF1) was just amazing.


EDIT: Okay, here's how I personally see RDM working.

Base Class: Gladiator
Sub Class: Thaumaturge
Extra Skills: Conjurer

Allow RDM to use Cure/Cura/Thunder/Thundara etc, just not the final tier spells so they can still combo and be effective, just not as good as WHM or BLM would because they're not supposed to be. We should have new Epee-type swords/sabers that are RDM exclusive as well (can't use them as just GLA).

Job Skills:

- Refresh: Recovers MP over time (spell, targetable)
- Regain: Recovers TP over time (spell, targetable)
- Fast Cast: When active, reduces casting and recast times for spells. Reduces magic accuracy slightly. Effect ends upon re-use.
- Death Blossom: 3-fold sword weaponskill that reduces enemy's magic evasion. Combo Action: Swift Blade, Combo: Greatly reduces enemy's magic critical evasion
- Chainspell: Cast & Recast timers for all spells set to 0 for duration (15 seconds) and their MP costs halved.


So rather than just rehashing how it was in XI, this way RDM would really be a frontline mage, offering a balance of damage and support without stepping on WHM or BLM's toes, as well as bringing it's own unique abilities to the fray.

[Mijin]

You stupid? All those jobs i named, chars was those jobs. Did you ever play FF?

Here's my main character in Final Fantasy. I call him Redi the Red Mage. :P

[Tonkra]

rdm is such a boring class, which does not bring anything new to the game.. fire, thunder.. spells.. then try out blm... healing spells... get a whm... sword ws .. try out a gladiator..

seriously.. smn is much more interesting then. well sorry i was never a real big fan of rdm.

but good thing, that not anybody wants to play a petclass like smn

[Mijin]

rdm is such a boring class, which does not bring anything new to the game.. fire, thunder.. spells.. then try out blm... healing spells... get a whm... sword ws .. try out a gladiator..

Except stuff like enfeebling magic, refresh, enspells, and chainspell.

[Firon]

Except stuff like enfeebling magic, refresh, enspells, and chainspell.

RDM was only a enfeeb in XI and in other games that was the BLM's job as well like he said rdm brings nothing new to the table. RDM is usually a weak class. The one thing RDM did bring to the table and that was Double cast.

Enspells was basically done by mystic knight and brd had mp recover spells in old Ff games as well, so what has rdm brought new? nothing.

[Levian]

RDM was only a enfeeb in XI and in other games that was the BLM's job as well like he said rdm brings nothing new to the table. RDM is usually a weak class. The one thing RDM did bring to the table and that was Double cast.

Enspells was basically done by mystic knight and brd had mp recover spells in old Ff games as well, so what has rdm brought new? nothing.

By your logic in the bolded sentence, they should have avoided Summoner like the plague because it wasn't so hot in a previous title (XI). You can't judge what a class is going to be based on what it was in previous iterations. If you played FF titles before VII, the redmage option was usually pretty kickass to have around. It swung a sword just as well as a warrior, with the benefit of having cures/nukes if the situation arose where you needed them more than another sword. If they go about designing it properly, it could be worth having around, and I mean as more than just a refresh/haste whore, in XIV.

By that same token, SMN, which has been a proven performer, could be held back (once again) by poor design. Or it could be as amazing as it's previous iterations. I won't likely be playing it, but all the same I hope for the latter. I'm not going to wish ill on anyone's favored job. But, the only way to know will be to check it out in 2.0.

[Leoheart]

they should have avoided Summoner like the plague because it wasn't so hot in a previous title (XI).

Not sure if trollin'

[Mijin]

RDM was only a enfeeb in XI and in other games that was the BLM's job as well like he said rdm brings nothing new to the table. RDM is usually a weak class. The one thing RDM did bring to the table and that was Double cast.

Enspells was basically done by mystic knight and brd had mp recover spells in old Ff games as well, so what has rdm brought new? nothing.

So make FFXIV's rdm like FFXI's RDM.

[NefGP]

rdm is such a boring class, which does not bring anything new to the game.. fire, thunder.. spells.. then try out blm... healing spells... get a whm... sword ws .. try out a gladiator..

seriously.. smn is much more interesting then. well sorry i was never a real big fan of rdm.

but good thing, that not anybody wants to play a petclass like smn

You're looking at it the wrong way. Now, being an MMO the job has to have SOME uniqueness to it, but the allure of RDM has always been the versatility - the fact that it can do many rolls quite well. Not so well that you'd use it to replace a specialist like WHM or BLM, but well enough to fill in any holes in the party as well as enable strong solo play skills.

I personally feel GLA is the best choice for a base class rather than making a whole new one, as it's got all the right base skills and equipment available that a Red Wizard would have had access to in FF1. A RDM is not going to outshine anyone, but it can certainly fill in any gaps there may be. RDM was very useful in XI, but I never really found it to be much fun.

The melee side of the job was completely half-assed; inadequate or ridiculously rare & expensive gear just to catch up to an average DD. Worthless enspells (unless you're into 0-tp dagger style play) and lackluster nuking ability didn't help either (thanks to XI's skill system and giving RDM only a C+ rating - DRK HAD BETTER SKILL!!! @_@) Couple that with high MP endurance, half-decent cures and strong enfeebling magic and well, you could just forget about the "Fighter" part.

I'm not saying my proposal is perfect, but it's at least a template that offers what I think most of us who have loved the job since FF1 want to play. I love mixing up magic & swordplay without having to worry that I'm just not up to the task.

[Levian]

Not sure if trollin'

Don't go takin my words out of context. If I were trollin, you'd know it. It's a fact that they didn't live up to expectations in XI. If you base your opinion of whether or not to include a job on the titles they struck a sour note in, you could also include (once again thanks to XI) DRG. But this is a new game, with new mechanics, so you can't do that.

Edit: @ NefGP - I think the bigger problem with RDM meelee was it's B- sword/dagger skill. You could never make up for that, even with Merits. The fact that even in the hands of a job with A grade skill sword WS were lackluster didn't help either.