How Many Would Have Rather Seen RDM than SMN

[Makwa]

Heh, watch them slap rapiers on Musketeer and make it a melee DoM class that becomes RDM.(Coulda just been Fencer!)

[Tonkra]

rdm is such a boring class, which does not bring anything new to the game.. fire, thunder.. spells.. then try out blm... healing spells... get a whm... sword ws .. try out a gladiator..

seriously.. smn is much more interesting then. well sorry i was never a real big fan of rdm.

but good thing, that not anybody wants to play a petclass like smn

[Mijin]

rdm is such a boring class, which does not bring anything new to the game.. fire, thunder.. spells.. then try out blm... healing spells... get a whm... sword ws .. try out a gladiator..

Except stuff like enfeebling magic, refresh, enspells, and chainspell.

[Firon]

Except stuff like enfeebling magic, refresh, enspells, and chainspell.

RDM was only a enfeeb in XI and in other games that was the BLM's job as well like he said rdm brings nothing new to the table. RDM is usually a weak class. The one thing RDM did bring to the table and that was Double cast.

Enspells was basically done by mystic knight and brd had mp recover spells in old Ff games as well, so what has rdm brought new? nothing.

[Mijin]

RDM was only a enfeeb in XI and in other games that was the BLM's job as well like he said rdm brings nothing new to the table. RDM is usually a weak class. The one thing RDM did bring to the table and that was Double cast.

Enspells was basically done by mystic knight and brd had mp recover spells in old Ff games as well, so what has rdm brought new? nothing.

So make FFXIV's rdm like FFXI's RDM.

[NefGP]

rdm is such a boring class, which does not bring anything new to the game.. fire, thunder.. spells.. then try out blm... healing spells... get a whm... sword ws .. try out a gladiator..

seriously.. smn is much more interesting then. well sorry i was never a real big fan of rdm.

but good thing, that not anybody wants to play a petclass like smn

You're looking at it the wrong way. Now, being an MMO the job has to have SOME uniqueness to it, but the allure of RDM has always been the versatility - the fact that it can do many rolls quite well. Not so well that you'd use it to replace a specialist like WHM or BLM, but well enough to fill in any holes in the party as well as enable strong solo play skills.

I personally feel GLA is the best choice for a base class rather than making a whole new one, as it's got all the right base skills and equipment available that a Red Wizard would have had access to in FF1. A RDM is not going to outshine anyone, but it can certainly fill in any gaps there may be. RDM was very useful in XI, but I never really found it to be much fun.

The melee side of the job was completely half-assed; inadequate or ridiculously rare & expensive gear just to catch up to an average DD. Worthless enspells (unless you're into 0-tp dagger style play) and lackluster nuking ability didn't help either (thanks to XI's skill system and giving RDM only a C+ rating - DRK HAD BETTER SKILL!!! @_@) Couple that with high MP endurance, half-decent cures and strong enfeebling magic and well, you could just forget about the "Fighter" part.

I'm not saying my proposal is perfect, but it's at least a template that offers what I think most of us who have loved the job since FF1 want to play. I love mixing up magic & swordplay without having to worry that I'm just not up to the task.

[Levian]

RDM was only a enfeeb in XI and in other games that was the BLM's job as well like he said rdm brings nothing new to the table. RDM is usually a weak class. The one thing RDM did bring to the table and that was Double cast.

Enspells was basically done by mystic knight and brd had mp recover spells in old Ff games as well, so what has rdm brought new? nothing.

By your logic in the bolded sentence, they should have avoided Summoner like the plague because it wasn't so hot in a previous title (XI). You can't judge what a class is going to be based on what it was in previous iterations. If you played FF titles before VII, the redmage option was usually pretty kickass to have around. It swung a sword just as well as a warrior, with the benefit of having cures/nukes if the situation arose where you needed them more than another sword. If they go about designing it properly, it could be worth having around, and I mean as more than just a refresh/haste whore, in XIV.

By that same token, SMN, which has been a proven performer, could be held back (once again) by poor design. Or it could be as amazing as it's previous iterations. I won't likely be playing it, but all the same I hope for the latter. I'm not going to wish ill on anyone's favored job. But, the only way to know will be to check it out in 2.0.

[Leoheart]

they should have avoided Summoner like the plague because it wasn't so hot in a previous title (XI).

Not sure if trollin'

[Levian]

Not sure if trollin'

Don't go takin my words out of context. If I were trollin, you'd know it. It's a fact that they didn't live up to expectations in XI. If you base your opinion of whether or not to include a job on the titles they struck a sour note in, you could also include (once again thanks to XI) DRG. But this is a new game, with new mechanics, so you can't do that.

Edit: @ NefGP - I think the bigger problem with RDM meelee was it's B- sword/dagger skill. You could never make up for that, even with Merits. The fact that even in the hands of a job with A grade skill sword WS were lackluster didn't help either.

[SwordCoheir]

Edit: @ NefGP - I think the bigger problem with RDM meelee was it's B- sword/dagger skill. You could never make up for that, even with Merits. The fact that even in the hands of a job with A grade skill sword WS were lackluster didn't help either.

It was actually a plethora of problems on both the mage and melee side that hurt RDM badly. You could say one side is a little bad like B level sword/dagger skill and nobody would say anything because their mindset was "eh it's just one little problem no biggie every job as a few", but the problem was there were too damn many "one little problems".

Like:
-Poor Merit Selection, and under powered merit spells.
-RDMs "niche" in enfeebling lacks any real exclusive spells outside of Gravity II and poor merit spells.
-Enfeebles were often straight resisted by anything worth a damn.
-Had a ridiculous amount of 3 minute single target and self-buff spells, so even if RDM had good offensive capabilities it was severely hindered by constant casting/recasting.
-There were no weapons that gave the benefits of the Elemental staff affinities, you essentially were married to staves.
-No physically offensive traits.
-Only one physically offensive Job ability.
-Role was often based solely on subjob.
-No powerful weaponskills form Swords.
-No powerful Daggers outside of Mandau (till recently mind you).
-2h update completely obliterated 1h capacity to melee.
-Damage from 1h and 2h weapons continues to grow wider apart.
-RDM Enhancing spells scaled poorly.
-T2 Enspells are flat out broken.

And the Big one...

-Magic and Physical aspects were kept completely separate from one another.

And when SE tried to force the magic part onto the physical like with T2 Enspells you either had to bring down your Physical damage to make your Enspells stronger or bring down your Enspell damage to make your Physical side stronger it was a very lose-lose situation. The fact BLU really shined is because it's physical and magical properties are tied within each other in a harmony that SE should have taken a hint from and applied to RDM which is in need of a major revamp.

This of course doesn't discount the fact FFXI's developers have mostly left the job untouched for 8 years, had a knack for shooting down any worthwhile ideas to fix RDM, and often going one step further to rub salt in the wound when they give those ideas to other jobs who are already in a secure position like WHM or new jobs like GEO.