Can't we learn to compromise?

[Galamantyl]

A lot of people might think I have a narrow point of view, since I tend to post "I am in favor of" or "I am strongly against" - I keep it simple and to the point because most of you don't know wtf you're all talking about half the time. What most of you want is contradictory to what you "really" want, and that's a fun game. Yah, a lot of you whined about this or that from games you've actually enjoyed playing, so despite all your constant b****ing, you simply don't know what you really want.

So today, my new thread is going to be about compromising. I can't see why we can't have a little of both. Can you? Are you so set in your ways you can't "suck it up" just a little bit?

Some examples are in order here...

SP/EXP penalty upon KO
Here's what's been tried:

• Corpse Retrieval (for exp or equipment recovery)
• EXP loss
• Deleveling
• Rising EXP loss upon consecutive deaths
• EXP debt you pay off while gaining exp
• Damage to equipment upon death you have to pay to repair
• Weakened status (what we have right now)

Lots of options above, surely we can have a combination of any of those. Why not a little bit of EXP loss coupled with some EXP debt? Or maybe a weakened status that doesn't go away until you pay for it?

Job System
Everything so far has been a class system of some kind, but here's what I've seen so far:

• Fixed class system - each class unique
• Multiple class system - switchable classes / subclassing / etc
• Archtype system - since everyone seems to think there's only 4~5 types of classes.
• Branching class system - because knowing your class from level 1 just isn't... fun?
• Skill-based system - anything-goes advancement

Personally, skills + classes were the perfect combo for me in FFXI. The fact there were "skill-up" parties separate from exp parties gave you more to do. But some people hate grinding, despite playing mmos that just have more and more of it anyway. Now there's some people suggesting a class/job combo system here, some just want the classes changed entirely. Can't we have half of each somehow?

Physical Level / Point Allotment
There's been various "options" for advancement/customization in mmorpgs. For example...

• Class and character levels - one for abilities, one for stats
• Alternative Advancement (aka Merit Points) - option to gain exp in another line of advancement besides class.
• Specialization points - which eventually brought about "respeccing" thus becoming a pointless feature.

I don't see why we can't compromise on this. Yah, I agree, point allotment right now kills the value of stats on gear, but couldn't we settle for having fewer points to allot (1 per level is enough imo) and fixed stat growth by class/rank as well? You'd still get some customization while advancing while not completely killing the value of stats on equipment.

These are just examples. But even with that people could find a middle ground they'd settle for. The game doesn't have to be just "one way or the other" - there is middle ground that both sides will settle for, despite all their whining.

I intentionally left out the "jumping" part because the fact people are arguing about that is just insanely stupid. It's such a pointless topic, but if you feel the need to add that to the discussion, go ahead.

[Seif]

We already are. That's why all the game design choices are becoming washed out, middle of the road, watered down versions of something a game designer with vision would do.

With compromises in artistic decisions (and yes videogame design is art) everybody loses.

[Malakhim]

From what I'm seeing, Yoshida actually has some vision of where he wants the game to go, but he's keeping his cards real close to his chest.

Before any "compromise" can be made, we need to actually see just what it is he's trying to implement and try it out, so that we can offer some intelligent feedback.

Why are people arguing over death penalties when we haven't even had a chance to try out what Yoshida's planning? Why are people going nuts over an auto-attack when we haven't seen what Yoshida's got in the oven for the battle system?

Seriously people.

[Chezen]

From what I'm seeing, Yoshida actually has some vision of where he wants the game to go, but he's keeping his cards real close to his chest.

Before any "compromise" can be made, we need to actually see just what it is he's trying to implement and try it out, so that we can offer some intelligent feedback.

I think so too. He's made it clear he's listening, and I like him. Just need to be patient and give him a chance.

Devs are like parents. They have to listen to the feelings of the individual kids, then make the best decisions for the family that they can.

[graiman]

malakhim makes a decent point it is pretty much a waiting game as far as i can tell, to see what yoshi pulls outa his bag o' tricks,
hes just taking his sweet time about it, but im not a game designer or developer so i dont know how long it would take to implement some of yoshi's plans...

[Chezen]

malakhim makes a decent point it is pretty much a waiting game as far as i can tell, to see what yoshi pulls outa his bag o' tricks,
hes just taking his sweet time about it, but im not a game designer or developer so i dont know how long it would take to implement some of yoshi's plans...

Well... consider it took them about 5 years to get it where it is now...
I do hope we don't have to wait that long.

[graiman]

Well... consider it took them about 5 years to get it where it is now...
I do hope we don't have to wait that long.

true dat
the quake and tsunami didnt exactly hasten their plans either =/

[graiman]

haha i guess your right gala, a bit off topic there :P
regarding the OP then, im sure we could compromise considering how mature we all are
as long at the story is good im content, just sayin'

[Jinko]

They are obviously working on a lot of stuff, but you can't just plug these things and expect them to work without a lot of testing and changes to other parts of the game.

It's not guna change massively in the next month or so, so if you are expecting that you're SOL.

[Galamantyl]

All of you completely misread the original post. The question was: "Can't we learn to compromise?" There's a lot of threads (even posts unrelated in threads) that argue one side or another. The main focus of this thread is the "middle ground". I'm not questioning Yoshida's "Master Plan"