Integrity matters

[VanillaWafer]

This game does have sex adjacent content, but it's become less of a thing since ShB. Actually, there's less sex talk in the German translation. All the creepy NPCs hitting on simpering girls in Limsa either say something different, or the girls tell them where they can stick it. Main storylines are preserved, but the random flavour text is not.

I think the over sexualisation may be on the English translation, which is famously quite different from the Japanese script.

There's an important distinction between depicting something and endorsing it. The presence of sexual or suggestive flavor text doesn't necessarily mean the game condones the behavior being depicted, especially when the text itself may portray an unwanted advance negatively.

And even if EN Localization has more sexual content than the other languages, that's still a separate question from whether that content causes or facilitates criminal behavior among players. That latter claim would need evidence of its own.

I think it's a little silly to think "This game has Limsa prostitutes, so it's okay to sexually harass other people." Like, no. It's actually reportable:

Example 2

In the case of role-playing involving mildly sexual expressions (such as erotic role-playing) with a consenting group of two or more players, if it is conducted in a private area, it will not be considered a violation unless a report is made.

However, if you encourage or invite a player to participate in such role-play without being certain of their consent, there is a high possibility that you will be reported and penalized. Please be very careful.

As you can see, expressions that fall under this category are generally prohibited, so if even one player who witnessed such an expression finds it offensive, there is a high possibility that it will be reported. What is considered offensive will vary from person to person, so if you believe there is any chance that you may offend someone, you should refrain from making such expressions.

Please note that Square Enix may issue a penalty at its discretion even if a report has not been filed but the act was found being conducted in public areas such as Say and Shout, search comments, Party Finder, on online video/streaming services, if the behavior is found to violate real world laws, or if it may be considered a problem based on the game's entertainment board ratings.

[BigCheez]

I just think it's funny how you can't not lie. You said



It's "ironic" to claim something that's evidently true based on my posts which anyone can read with their own eyes? Or are you saying I claimed I didn't say "typing slurs in chat"? Which is also a lie.


Your little bait post here didn't get any engagement from me because I saw it for what it was and don't personally get anything out of responding to it.


Now you're just coming across as desperate.

Are you going to answer the question or nah?

[Turtledeluxe]

This game does have sex adjacent content, but it's become less of a thing since ShB. Actually, there's less sex talk in the German translation. All the creepy NPCs hitting on simpering girls in Limsa either say something different, or the girls tell them where they can stick it. Main storylines are preserved, but the random flavour text is not.

I think the over sexualisation may be on the English translation, which is famously quite different from the Japanese script.

Respectfully, the game literally just had a raid oriented around "draining the audience" and otherwise glorified furry culture. I'm also not responsible for non English translators or employees. You also skipped over sexual bdsm glam that (even if historically accurate) has been in the game since Heavensward.

Sexual content is reportable but that's basically equivalent to doing "not much". Square Enix taking this approach to the game that they've created is sort of like putting alcohol on a table of alcoholics and being surprised about a DUI charge. They're also not only responsible for the content they've created, but also for mods due to the director's statements. You cannot simply take credit for the utility of mods, you have to take credit for the whole entire package. That's how it works when there's no actual rules around mods other than don't get caught using them.

That isn't what I said though. My posts are right there. You won't find "hurling slurs at people" in any of them.

They don't care. What they [unhinged projection because you can't win a single argument)] actually getting in trouble for typing slurs in chat meanwhile knowing that there are people running mods that let them change how their character looks in their own client and not being punished for it. That's all this is. That's why they keep appealing to the amorphous "problem" with how the developers choose to enforce their TOS as they see fit, which is their prerogative, without being able to articulate how it actually hurts anything other than their feelings.

[Carighan]

Square Enix taking this approach to the game that they've created is sort of like putting alcohol on a table of alcoholics and being surprised about a DUI charge.

I'm sorry, but if you're triggered to harass people from doing Vamp Fatale, that's definitely a you-problem. Reasonable adults that are even remotely well-adjusted can consule erotic, sexual and suggestive content without in turn thinking erotic, sexual or suggestive advances are desired by the players around them. People who think like this are exactly the problem, and the sooner we get rid of these players (instead of mods or whatever), the healthier the game will be.

This is like how when you got to a kink expo, despite the whole theme of it, you don't just go to some sub and try to play with her. You'd get punched by ~everybody around and the cops called on you, and for understandable reasons.

I would suggest that if you cannot handle ... not even adult, not-kiddo?... content in a video game, you avoid it? Yes, gore in particular is rather widespread, so that's a lot to avoid, but if you know it doesn't work for you, then why are you playing games that trigger you? And you should probably ask yourself why entirely normal adult concepts like eroticism or even sex apparently have such an effect on you, in particular if violence or gore (violence being also hyper-common in FFXIV, mind you!) fail to have an even more egregious effect, given their appaling nature.

[Turtledeluxe]

I'm sorry, but if you're triggered to harass people from doing Vamp Fatale, that's definitely a you-problem. Reasonable adults that are even remotely well-adjusted can consule erotic, sexual and suggestive content without in turn thinking erotic, sexual or suggestive advances are desired by the players around them. People who think like this are exactly the problem, and the sooner we get rid of these players (instead of mods or whatever), the healthier the game will be.

I initially interpreted this as ad hominem but re reading it, I think it's fair to respond more responsibly. I am not really debating whether or not adults are reasonable. But since you brought it up, do I think most people are reasonable? You're kinda draining all the context. This is an online game that provides anonymity. It allows you to become a part of ingroups. Sure, in isolation adults might be reasonable, but in a online game where rules are dictated by the developers and you have all these social elements to consider, how reasonable someone is in isolation isn't the only factor to consider. Nowhere have I argued mods are inherently problematic, I've argued devs have objectively played a role in the subcutluire growth (unintentionally or not) since they've exclusively set the rule "as long as we don't see it and no one reports it". I also never said getting rid of mods, erasing all sexual content in the game, etc will get rid of human sexuality (that's ridiculous). I've never demanded devs do any particular thing outside agreeing with a dev approved tool kit.

I would suggest that if you cannot handle ... not even adult, not-kiddo?... content in a video game, you avoid it? Yes, gore in particular is rather widespread, so that's a lot to avoid, but if you know it doesn't work for you, then why are you playing games that trigger you? And you should probably ask yourself why entirely normal adult concepts like eroticism or even sex apparently have such an effect on you, in particular if violence or gore (violence being also hyper-common in FFXIV, mind you!) fail to have an even more egregious effect, given their appaling nature.

How can someone avoid, let's use the raid as an example? The various sexual elements are in the design, the music (lyrics), the announcer statements, etc. It's built up across the entire encounter, so I 'd argue it doesn't really make much sense unless you directly experience it. I'm not debating whether or not people can "handle it", including myself. I was told there's no problem here, no substantive point behind the thread, and SE robustly defends against problems. All I am saying is, I disagree with all those statements and this is why. It's not just one raid, it's all my posts in summation. The comment on the raid was not directed at you, but another post that stated the game hasn't had sexual elements since Shadowbringers. That's factually untrue and your post doesn't actually disprove that point at all. You're talking about entirely different subjects.

If you're asking my actual opinion on sexual elements in the story such as this raid, do I think we need them? Genuinely ..I don't think they're necessary. I'm not triggered by them at all, but I think this raid would be JUST as well received without Vamp. I can't say for certain things like sexual storytelling, glam, or mods cause sexual deviance in the player population. That's not really the point. The point is that it makes sexual deviance more likely than not, or more convenient than not, especially in game that uses realistic human proportions and animations. People are saying this happens in every game, maybe. But in a game with this level of fideliity and ease of access, it's a philosophical question as far as "how much responsibility does Square Enix have given these factors". Additionally considering this context, how responsible is it to have a lax attitude toward ToS violations as such? It's food for thought, not an instant demand for anti cheat.

[uwaa_a_catgirl]

Where is this "obvious cheating problem"? As in, how do you spot it? If it's so obvious, can you give us a simple run-down list? Ideally with some examples? And is it just "obvious", or is it also "widespread"? Because if it ain't, then it ought to be easy to report and action the limited number of players who so obviously cheat, yet? And if OTOH it is widespread (and obvious!) then it should be easy to provide tons of examples that every one of us can easily verify with just a single evening of play, yes?

I asked someone earlier who said CE is always full of botters to point out some botters from who I found ingame, and they didn't get back to me either.

If cheaters and botters are so prolific, I'd like to help report them, but everyone who says they're prolific always fails to point out individuals I can report when I ask for help with that.

So erm... how do I go about that? I would like to turn words into actions.

The thread may have moved on, but I feel compelled to respond to this post.

The problem with identifying bots is it requires paying attention to player actions and time. I saw a few bots in OC a couple months back. Identification required close attention over the course of several fates. These bots were not collaborating or part of any multiboxing effort; they were separate individuals botting on their own. What gave them away is that, each fate, as they dodged AOEs they would inevitably converge to the same location and move in unison point to point from there. People are too chaotic for this to happen to the degree of consistency I observed. Bots are not.

But I don't spend much time in OC, and there's a lot of people to keep track of besides. However, I do spend quite a bit of time in CC and the bots have been quite prevalent there. Over the past two weeks, I have reported 90 occurrences of botting across 20 players, with an additional 38 players I suspect are botting but I haven't seen them enough to come to a conclusion. I don't know how many games I've played, but it feels like half of my games have 1-2 bots, sometimes as many as 4. It is quite frustrating.

The bots are quite good, and the plugin they are using is quite sophisticated. I could give enough specifics for how I identify bots that anyone playing CC could identify several in an evening of play, but since the plugin is in very active development, I worry writing a detailed write up would be sufficient for the plugin author to vibe code something to address it.

Identification comes down to observing players again and again, which is easy to do in CC; 10 players at a time, and smaller population overall. Eventually you notice a particular player exhibits peculiar behavior, so you start observing them more closely, and then the tells become obvious. A very tedious process.

As for how to report them, GM services directed me to this form: https://support.na.square-enix.com/f...=5382&la=1&p=0

[Thurmnmurmn]

I use to be in the boat of "you can totally identify who's Botting" but that is no longer the case.
After playing OSRS for the past few years I've noticed that there's some special kind of people who can repeat the same thing over and over at the exact same rhythm without ever skipping a beat.
Honestly it's pretty impressive.

[jomas_45]

. The comment on the raid was not directed at you, but another post that stated the game hasn't had sexual elements since Shadowbringers. That's factually untrue

I said it had lessened, not that it had gone away entirely. We still get outfits with booty shorts/mini skirts for women, trousers for men. We still get that succubus boss recycled over and over and over again like it's the only female mob we have and designing another is too hard. We still get Vamp Fatale.


But the male bosses have become sexier to women as well, so equality is going the wrong way, but it's happening. We don't get escort missions for courtesans. I think the last real courtesan we had was Yotsuyu, and she was an actual character.

[VeyaAkemi]

We still get that succubus boss recycled over and over and over again like it's the only female mob we have and designing another is too hard.

Now now, that's not true, we also get the Siren model recycled a lot, though DT did give us the Deceiver in Oriogenics, and she is a recycled Scathach, she is a funny case because you can look at her hands, her left hand is relaxed while her right hand is clenched, this is because Scathach held a spear on her right hand, her left hand is even in the exact same position as Sca's.

Also since the Siren recycles are most often tree women, I tend to call them "trussy mobs".

[jomas_45]

Now now, that's not true, we also get the Siren model recycled a lot, though DT did give us the Deceiver in Oriogenics, and she is a recycled Scathach, she is a funny case because you can look at her hands, her left hand is relaxed while her right hand is clenched, this is because Scathach held a spear on her right hand, her left hand is even in the exact same position as Sca's.

Also since the Siren recycles are most often tree women, I tend to call them "trussy mobs".

I stand corrected. "Trussy Mobs" lol. Still, can we have a female model with actual clothing whose magic isn't allure?