Add Commander role to Frontline

[Commander_Justitia]

Upon warmup timer starting in frontline, create a pop up similar to Bozja 1v1 duels, that ask the player if they want to participate in an event. I think there should be a third option, that asks if a commander role should even be added. If the majority is against it, the event is declined.

Options: 1. Yes (I accept to play as commander) 2. No (I don't want to be commander). 3. Decline the event.

The default cursor should be on No.
And there should be a check to "not ask again" in the future, minimizing the popup automatically.

If at least 1 player accepts in every of the 3 alliances. Each alliance will get 1 commander selected randomly from the pool of players who accepted.
If no commander is picked in one alliance of the three, there will be no commander in all of them.
There could be notoriety accumulated like in Bozja if you are not picked several times. So you have a higher chance being picked at next time.

As commander you get marking tools unlocked, that can't be removed by other players. These include a general marker for the commander character, as well as waymarks that can be placed during combat. I expect these waymarks to have symbols tied to them instead of letters or numbers.
I would want
"Group up" or "Follow" - Waymark - Symbol like a "3 people share icon"
"Attack" Waymark "Crossed Swords"
"Defend" Waymark "Shield"
"Danger" Waymark "exclamation mark - danger symbol"

these could be accompanied by quick chat audio cues, with text describing what the waymark means.
Normal waymarks for players should be disabled.

I think the commander, besides having their own personal marker over their character (visible even by enemies), should be increased in character size by 50-100% (this will allow support actions to be easier hit, because you will be easier targetable by allies), and have a buff icon indicating everyone, even the enemy that they are the commander.
They should get a HP increase of 100% and cc immunity (debatable).

Killing a commander should net 100 points. This kill bonus will half each time a commander is killed. Until it reaches 5 points at 5 deaths. Netting the enemy max 192 points. 100+50+25+12+5
After 5 deaths a commander loses the HP increase and CC immunity and their icon will look downgraded. This prevents commanders from being ignorant solo players. If intentional it should be reported.

A commander gets 1 or 2 additional commander special duty actions.

There are many potential actions that could be implemented here. I think they should be 1 time use per match, but very powerful and potentially game turning and deciding moves.

If the actual respawn timer would be higher in frontline instead of instant. I would have proposed a mass resurrect 40y range with temporarily invulnerability for the commander during the cast. Given the resurrected a fallen warrior buff, that makes them net 0 points if killed again in the next 30s.


There could be a damage buff, like putting a big standard/flag of your GC in the ground, that gives a permanent buff for 1min for 50y around the area.

It could be a movement speed buff that grants all nearby members 3 stacks of perfect dodge/ guaranteed evasion for 30s, this would be used when time is running out and you need to engage in battle fast before the match ends, to overwhelm an enemy quickly.

It could be a temporary tank lb

It could be calling in an airstrike to deny the enemy movement in one area. Or meteor. Which increases vulnerability.


Again, only one or two actions can be picked.

These lb3 type skills should be visually powerful and easy to hear. And maybe indicated in the chat log that they are being used, even by the enemy. Or it should be displayed in the commander buff icon, similar to lost actions in Bozja, which are being used.

The commander gets after the match exactly 0 extra rewards. There are no achievements tied to the commander role. I do not want players to achievement hunt for "Participate as commander in frontline 100000 times" it would ruin it. There should be no mount reward or anything.

If a commander disconnects or is kicked, a random player will be assigned to be one, ideally one of the pool who previously wanted to be a commander in the first place. The player will be healed fully if they receive the commander buff, to prevent instant death.

Reasoning for adding the role:
People already make themselves a commander more or less. It is part of the gameplay, but devs haven't realized it or don't support it with basic marking tools at least.
Players are often clueless what to do without a leader.
Players are demotivated to break out of their disadvantageous situation, this could give them the tools to change the flow of battle. Having not used commander actions can change a battle late.
Players troll marks and waymarks, removing them, or accidentally using the same, overwriting something, or making countdowns with them.
Players need visual and audio aid, to understand strategy.

I have written this fully knowing that it probably never happens. But I think no matter what PvP gameplay system they make, this clash of LB3 type skills in frontline, would be quite epic. It feels like its missing that uncertainty.

Edit: What a wall of text, I am sorry lmao

[Random0]

I can't read all this, it is too complicated, if you need more than 2 sentences explaining it, then it is not simple enough.

I'm kidding lol There's actually a lot of really interesting ideas here, because as you say :

Reasoning for adding the role:

• People already make themselves a commander more or less. It is part of the gameplay, but devs haven't realized it or don't support it with basic marking tools at least.
• Players are often clueless what to do without a leader.
• Players are demotivated to break out of their disadvantageous situation, this could give them the tools to change the flow of battle. Having not used commander actions can change a battle late.
• Players troll marks and waymarks, removing them, or accidentally using the same, overwriting something, or making countdowns with them.
• Players need visual and audio aid, to understand strategy.

Upon warmup timer starting in frontline, create a pop up similar to Bozja 1v1 duels, that ask the player if they want to participate in an event. I think there should be a third option, that asks if a commander role should even be added. If the majority is against it, the event is declined.

Agreed that getting commissioned as a Commander should be optional and opt-in - Bozja duel system is a great basis. However maybe this needs some limiter as the Command pool could be flooded with players who don’t have any intention of actually commanding which reduces the chances of a competent and willing commander getting selected.

Since we’re already taking a bit of the Bozja Field Operation here (which I think is super fitting tbh, considering Bozja is a real large scale battle that Frontline is supposed to be training Alliance freelancers for), we can tap the Occult Crescent Field Operations for an additional idea - Officer Commission Voucher.

Make them purchasable via Wolf Marks, say 5000 or 10,000 per commission (give us something to spend those damn marks on). Prospective commanders must submit at least one voucher when the pop-up appears, more vouchers increases chances and not getting selected refunds all submitted vouchers.

• As commander you get marking tools unlocked, that can't be removed by other players. These include a general marker for the commander character, as well as waymarks that can be placed during combat…
• I think the commander, besides having their own personal marker over their character…
• A commander gets 1 or 2 additional commander special duty actions….

We can actually combine these ideas. Since a player can’t have multiple Marks on them, we automatically give the Commander a visually distinct nameplate icon - make it a variant of the Storm/Flame/Serpent Marshal badge or something. Enemy and Allied Commanders should be targetable by hotbar actions similar to the already existing Target Forward/Back actions (“Target Enemy Cmdr 1/2”, which changes to Flames/Storm/Serpent Commander inside the match). This Commander badge replaces their dot on the minimap.

Then we give Commanders three standard Duty Actions - Assault Maneuver, Defensive Formation, and Redeploy Forces. These three actions would have a cooldown of 60-120sec which is shared between them.

• Assault Maneuver increases attack power by 10-20%
• Defensive Formation increases damage reduction and HP recovered by healing by 10-20%
• Redeploy Forces increases movement speed, including while on mounts

These actions would have a range of 20-30y around the Commander, with Assault/Defensive bonuses diminishing the further a fighter is away from their Commander. When these actions are in effect :

• Surround the Commander with a visual similar to WHM Asylum to show the range of the effect and is displayed on the minimap.
• Short on-screen text (like “Commander Justitia has given the order to attack!”)
• Temporary Waymark-style high vis marker indicating the action placed on the Commander for the duration of the effect. This marker would have the same visibility range as an Ovoo, and also appears on the minimap.

Then we have your LB-style Special Maneuver duty action that a commander selects from the duty menu before the match like you listed like planting a flag for an enhanced attack/defense buff or an aerial bombardment or limited perfect dodge/movement buff to aid in retreats and regroupings. But instead of them being once a match, put them on a 9 minute cooldown - if the match goes long enough, maybe a Commander will get a chance to use them again...

The commander gets after the match exactly 0 extra rewards. There are no achievements tied to the commander role. I do not want players to achievement hunt for "Participate as commander in frontline 100000 times" it would ruin it. There should be no mount reward or anything.

Solid agreement on this - It’s already a proven fact that even one person doing shot calling improves a team’s chances of victory, and this is just giving someone who would be shot calling anyway some extra tools. Victories already count towards achievements, so Commanders just help make those victories more likely. Victories commanded should show up on one’s PvP profile though.

I have written this fully knowing that it probably never happens. But I think no matter what PvP gameplay system they make, this clash of LB3 type skills in frontline, would be quite epic. It feels like its missing that uncertainty.

Agreed on all points. But I like ideas like this and they should at least be brought out into the public forum for discussion. Ideas foster discourse, and through discourse we can spark new ways of thinking and improve upon ourselves. And who knows, maybe some battle system designer at SE is REALLY bored and just happens to come across this discussion which sparks some ideas of their own.

[Commander_Justitia]

I'm kidding

Yes I use it as excuse sometimes, when I want direct answers lmao

Make them purchasable via Wolf Marks, say 5000 or 10,000 per commission (give us something to spend those damn marks on). Prospective commanders must submit at least one voucher when the pop-up appears, more vouchers increases chances and not getting selected refunds all submitted vouchers.

Tbh, it could even be a quest. And you have to turn in items that cost wolfmarks, to even get access to commander selection. Then only experienced PvP players have access to it, and those who grinded for it, which should be easy, but at least there is intention from the player to actively want it.
If on top of that voucher, is an idea yeah. But might make it hard for people to get it who play less often, and this will split playerbase into hardcore players and casuals more - which the devs as we know, don't like (casual vs. core disparity they call it). So I like the notoriety system, then even a casual player, if he fails to be selected, will get selected at next or after next frontline.
But you could combine both systems too here with voucher having preference at the first pick, and notoriety status of 2 missed commander selections, will have priority over a voucher.
But this adds complexity, that has to be coded etc. Might be too much. When it could be just simple.
(Think about CC players just sitting on a million wolfmark, they would have it too easy to be in closer commander selection every match)

We can actually combine these ideas. Since a player can’t have multiple Marks on them, we automatically give the Commander a visually distinct nameplate icon - make it a variant of the Storm/Flame/Serpent Marshal badge or something. Enemy and Allied Commanders should be targetable by hotbar actions similar to the already existing Target Forward/Back actions (“Target Enemy Cmdr 1/2”, which changes to Flames/Storm/Serpent Commander inside the match). This Commander badge replaces their dot on the minimap.

Yes the first part is what I meant by it, but I didn't go into details. I had guild wars 2 commander icon in my head, which was a unique one that player activated themselves in world pvp, in that game they had to buy it for 100gold I think. So also similar idea to spending wolfmarks to unlock. The GC flair is good idea. GC should be more relevant.
The second part, I am unsure. I haven't made commanders invincible, they will die by a zantetsuken too in the current state. 100% HP increase is not much if focus targeted, especially if commander is not a tanky class. So giving it a way to be targeted directly, even for newbies, will make their life a lot harder to survive I fear.
I am fine with minimap symbol.
I gave the role more size so it is already easier to select and notice in the field.

Then we give Commanders three standard Duty Actions - Assault Maneuver, Defensive Formation, and Redeploy Forces. These three actions would have a cooldown of 60-120sec which is shared between them.

This is alike squadron grand company interface, it has also 3 buttons, attack, retreat, and LB I think.
I thought about duty actions that can be used more often as a commander, but in my vision, I decided against it, because I do not want to make the commander a too important role that decides too much of the whole match. I mean they could do it if they wanted, I think it is risky. Because then people get mad at bad commanders too much maybe... If it is just a few actions a match, then the number of mistakes is less, and it is more obvious when to use it maybe. And with people already not losing battlehigh, additional frequent damage buffs might be too much. Also I do not want everyone to hug commander at all times. There should be time to spread out.

Surround the Commander with a visual similar to WHM Asylum

There used to be sacred prism and other aoe skills. They removed most because there is one issue with it, you don't know if the aoe belongs to your alliance or a different alliance, because they have no different visual indicator (all the same color). Like Salted Earth from DRK, you can't actually see if it is from an Ally or enemy. Imagine a zerg, and people clash against each other, these circles will overlap, and people cant tell if they get mitigation or not = death sentence.
The other issue is, movement based skills would be laggy, people would be visually inside a field, but not receive a buff because the commander moved else where already per server tick.
I like the idea of Asylum or Sacred Prism, but stationary, as part of a special action yeah. It would potentially counter Salted Earth Pull too, if mitigation value is high.

Text and waymark suggestion, I take anything that makes it easier yeah. It is debatable in what form in the end. I don't want it to become spammy, this is what I hate about current commanders tbh. Not a second passes sometimes without an audio cue in chat, it is too much tbh. People still need to think for themselves a little.

Victories commanded should show up on one’s PvP profile though

I thought about this too. But in different context. You could have made a selection system based on what the alliance votes for, instead of randonmizer bozja 1v1 system (with or without voucher or unlock). Then people could be displayed a popup how often one player has been successful commander already. And then give them a vote based on that info. But this seems to hard to select during the warmup phase and we don't want unfair elections, where people who just play less are at disadvantage. There could theoretically be better commanders, even if they only play 1 match a month, and they would be at the bottom of the list? Unfair..

So just a victory counter? I am not sure where to put it. If it is in PvP profile it gives casuals a suggestion to do it, because there would always be a 0. Maybe the unlock quest makes more sense again, unlocking an extra tab in PvP profile with that, no purpose other than selecting duty action, quickchats and waymarks as commander and put the display of win rate there then, just for you personally. This helps with macros and preplacing skills where you need them too.

And who knows, maybe some battle system designer at SE is REALLY bored and just happens

I mean I suggested hellhound weapons to get an upgrade with particle effects. I suggested that frontline gets additional skills. I suggested more arena maps. But it sure took some years for it to happen, and maybe just coincidence lol.

I bet they are in stress for evercold polishing now, so PvP gets updates later usually. So now is good time to put ideas, because in half a year they will be working on it probably. But these changes would be more than updating PvP skills for 2 new jobs. They could take more time to develop and design.
I think good part is, most systems already exist in some form.
You have GC ranking system with design templates for markers, Bozja selection system, duty action system, old minimap bossicon system, quickchat system, waymarker etc.

The actual skills would maybe have to be new or repurposed for animations. If mass resurrection then we can look for WoW BFA trailer lmao.

[Elephantality]

There is alot but I like this idea. I would also like trolling to be prevented, so this would be a welcome change.

[TofuLove]

Personally I find this whole idea terrible. Selecting a random person? Nah... You have got to earn the respect of people in this game.

I would just lock alliance chat to those who have at least 100 wins. Maybe even 300 wins total for any map.

[Commander_Justitia]

You have got to earn the respect of people in this game
I would just lock alliance chat to those who have at least 100 wins. Maybe even 300 wins total for any map.

You won't be earning it if you keep signing up for it, but actually suck/troll at it.
You can make unlock conditions, be it wolfmarks or achievements victory unlocks, but even bad players get 100 or 1000 wins one day. It won't restrict them from signing up for commander role, only the feedback they get from the players will put a stop to that.
That is why there have to be no rewards, being commander is extra work for a person, you get one measly skill you can use once in a match as reward. Casuals won't be interested to play it, no reward, extra pressure, extra standing out, being the target of criticism and can be reported if you are griefing on purpose.
If you don't like it, you can pass the event, if there is a majority there wont be a commander during that frontline match. If an alliance notices at the start, it doesn't have any good respected leader, they could opt for that.

If you really would go down the "respect" route, then new commanders would never have a chance to prove themselves. Which is worse I think.
And what stops good frontline leaders from still aiding the flow of the match?

[Scintilla]

I can't say that I'm a huge fan of the idea either: way too many potential problems.

Yes, I agree that there is a lack of commanders within FLs and that having a commander tends to lead to better outcomes - assuming the commander is any good. Let's be honest: how many will sign up purely to spam commands to camp on uncontested nodes or to blindly lick ice because they feel that is the only way to win, potentially blocking out the tiny chance of a decent commander taking the lead instead?

If it's already acknowledged that there is a drastic shortage of true commanders within FLs and the system requires for ALL 3 teams to have a commander for the system to even apply, 99% of the time the system will be voided and will not even apply. Because 99% of the time there won't be a commander on all 3 teams, especially with the role giving no additional rewards. That said, I'd agree it can't really give rewards because otherwise it would simply be abused by those who have little care/interest/knowledge of PvP (nevermind how to command a match!) just to get their achievement done.

And that's not to mention the potential for abuse to hinder another player. For example, queuing into FL, seeing a player you dislike who often plays as commander, and seeking to buy as many tickets to become a commander as you can just to try to stop them getting it. Amongst other scenarios.


The issues with the commanding situation are not the system tools available to them. This change does nothing except give them a few more pretty lights which will continue to be ignored anyway. The issue is:

- General low interest in PvP making few interested in practicing and learning the commander role in the first place

- Poor community effort in PvP, often leaving the commander with such a dreadful team that, regardless of what flashing lights you give them, it's still going to go totally ignored by their team

- Toxicity towards anyone who demonstrates a care for PvP. How many times do I see someone genuinely trying to encourage and lead a team to PvP, only for them to receive abuse back? The abusers might be useless at PvP and therefore hate it and see no point to it, but it doesn't mean that everyone else shouldn't care. But, unfortunately, this is considered the default and correct attitude for a large number of rouletters.

All of these issues are caused by the general 'who cares' community attitude continuously reinforcing it and the game's approach to PvP itself. There's no real PvP introduction or Hall of Novice to give new players advice. PvP Mentor role is practically a joke - I could have never played PvP and, just because I'm a crafter, I can mark myself a a PvP Mentor. It's a heavily neglected aspect of the game, with the only duty getting the tiniest bit of attention is CC. How are we to convince the players that this is something worth doing if even the developers can't be bothered with it?

There are relatively few willing commanders even amongst the regular PvPers because of the attention the role gets and the negative attitude it's met with. I genuinely cannot see how making their character twice as big or giving foghorn-loud sound effects is going to help that? They're already met with abuse over the small sound-effects they currently use

[Commander_Justitia]

You describe griefing. If players grief, report them or just kick them so someone else gets commander. Either by taking the commander role and doing stupid shit, or by blocking others from getting it out of spite. There doesn't need to be voucher for prioritized entry. And it would only put you on the same stage like them, not ahead by buying many. I also think this system is too complex with voucher.

I don't play the ice map, I think its not PvP map lol.

How do you generate interest if there is no system in place for it? You gotta start somewhere.

I am fine if commanders get ignored, you cant carry a netflix team, but at least there was an attempt. I precisely said that I do not want commands to be spamamble, because I hate those commanders myself that spam the chatlog. Commands could have a cooldown time attached.

If players do not give their best, it is griefing, once again - not my problem if they are toxic towards players who care about PvP. If they do not like PvP maybe they shouldn't play it.

Yes I agree we have the "who cares" attitude. I also dislike PvP mentor to be a free giveaway. How do you convince them? You punish them if they troll and grief the match.

I see commanders maybe 50% of matches, but its some time since I last played more than 2-3 days. So maybe there are less players right now because of end of addon idk.
I think the commander actions would make them play more, because they will be big and beautiful lol.

And last part - players can mute/block...if commander get their own chat category, they could be silenced permanently if someone desires this.

[MayuAmakura]

We already have that system and is called "premades" kek

[Canadane]

If anyone remembers the PS3 game MAG, it was an online-only 3 faction FPS game that featured a rather high player count in matched. 512 iirc.
They had a CO role on each team. A good CO could make all the difference in a match and it really did change the dynamic up a lot.

However the game was designed around having them. Higher ranking players would get the role over lower ranking, and there were objectives that could be destroyed which would stop the intel getting to the CO.
I really had a lot of fun in that game.

FFXIV Frontlines isn't that, and it isn't designed around that.
If someone wants to take up the responsibility of herding the troops, let 'em. But an actual position for it wouldn't be as intuitive as you think it might.