Pure DPS Role - is actually a joke.

[SakuraMidnight]

Pure DPS Role - is actually a joke.
This role basically just black mage right? cause machinst does not do no wear near as much damage as black mage. I am not feeling like samurai is doing the number it should. should we just call this the black mage role lacking the raw power and numbers black mage can spell out. what the point of pure dps or selfish dps. whats point if your selfish dps and your bad dps numbers. hope they fix this. find that at times i do more dps on a monk then actually do on my samurai. something isnt right. thought it was a "Me" issue or a "Skill issue" for while but no matter how much i practiced it did not matter black mage still out preforms both

do not get me wrong the selfish dps roles should be somewhat even as far dps numbers are conserned. over all dps is very inconsistant. where damage from black mage always been consistantly high even with new black mage changes players seem to hate. black mage still hits like a trunk .dont get me wrong i love all 3 jobs after continuelessly playing all forms of content i can see despairety in selfish dps roles that should not exist. until get at mid 70s or 80 does samurai somewhat decent but below that boring as hell. do more damage on my monk actually do my samurai actually have more fun playing monk then samurai

cause everyime look at dps logs black mage is always number 1 pretty much up there. just saying

when has never been time where black mage has not top dps meter to absolute max

Machinst - let me explain up for most his job is not for new players. you have to press buttons rapid more with a time limit to preduce large numbers this can be challanging in heat of the battle. where you miss your wildfires or abilities locked behind 10s window. sometimes you will miss op to press these abilities cause trying do manics. samurai is pretty much the same have judge right times use injutsu witnout getting screwed over by manics. i hate fact that ijutsu doesnt get cast time reduction trait to way higher level. this being major part of our kit. extremely frustration almost boring to level experence ever had

Black mage rotation is easy. compared to machinst full rotation. machinst rotation is nightmare. not because how many buttons you have press. but how fast you need press them. have to do them perfectly without single failure every single time. just to get decent dps not talkin about high dps. machinst to me is hardiest playable dps job at the moiment to me for that reason alone. dont get me wrong lot fast button pressing dps jobs out there. but machinst depends speed or good internet

thing is if do machinst full rotation perfectly dont feel rewarded feel stressed playing this job cause just trying keep your numbers decent. this is a selfish dps job come on man. we talkin about a job that constantly press as many buttons within 10 second window also keep track of that window without dieing over and over again. doing this rotation on constant basic is absolute nightmare. needs be fixed this is not fun if you can play this job without messing up my hat goes off too you man. but wouldnt wish playing this job on my worst enemy

happy with a big rotation i mean come on play monk all other melee dps. but machinst is just...wow man karpa-tunnel inducing job if machanist is easy. that pretty sure your playing it wrong or your skipping the most annoying part of it. watch is pretty much 25% max total dps

as for samurai I my major upsets about the job is how it feels to play. lets talk about solo play first thing need understand samurai is squishy as hell. they cannot take many hits. so to survive you have to use third eye a lot, bloodbath and even feint keep yourself alive even bought stack of potions. most dps are very squishy but samurai level of squishiness is probably the worst. 2nd thing you notice is that rotation though long get extremely boring extremely quick. sometimes you find yourself dieng while doing ijutsu. class quest are somewhat hard. most players who play samurai tell you upfront leveling of this job was not most enjoyable experence.

now actually fighting bosses or doing daily content. again same thing you get used to spamming third eye everytime about take a hit. cause dropping down 100% hp to 60% anytime take any type sort of damage is scary. or when misjudge a ijutsu and get one shooted by the boss cause mechanics. Samurai experence is somewhat dull. dont really have any hard hitting abilties ijutsu doesnt really hit all that hard. compared to monks masterful blizt or black mages fire 4. in fact you hit like wet noodle for along time. constantly keeping your dot active. while having large amounts of buttons pretty much do nothing or should do something more then constant 1000 damage everytime you hit something around level 50-60 but sadly no nothing great. 1.2.3 1.2.3. 1.2 rotation is simple. and your 1.2..1.3 aoe rotation is ok. but nothing fuss about but iujustsu is boring. doesnt seem like your doing any sorts of damage at this part of the game it sucks what it is somewhere in upper 70s or something things get little better. at this point you really wish you where playing anything else but samurai.

now if just normal monsters and destroy you 4-6 hits without use of cooldowns imagine what a boss could do with single attack. playing samurai in dungeons is also unforgiving you cannot ever single point of damage or you fold like peice of paper. really should learn art of dodging not standing in fire. healer will love you. and you love yourself more then your butt be stuck up in the air everyone laughing at you cause you simple couldnt just move out the way. and be honest samurai is good at moving out the way. only if people actually press those buttons. see those buttons are both blessing and curse cause sometimes when you press them they make you fall off the edge and kill you

lets talk bout the major thing melee dps positionals i cannot stand positionals but hey guess what dev team thinks we all love them so they are coming back evercold full force.. so yay pretty no one asked for this but we getting it anyway...hehe..

[Carighan]

"Pure DPS" only makes sense in games that intentionally don't want numerical balance, or for which some extra reason to have imbalanced DPS exist.

A very easy example here is Dark Age of Camelot: It's centered around it's RvR large-scale PvP combat. In this, range is naturally quite important, so one caster class in each realm takes the role of the "bolt caster". Their overall DPS is actually pretty meh, plus they lack in the AoE and utility departments compared to other classes. But, speccing into bolts, they can cast multiple of these from a greater range (1850 vs 1500 if memory servers) than others, meaning that in RvR, when the first bolt hits you, you might already be dead from the stuff already flying towards you. That is their role. They're the "snipers" of that game, basically.

But lacking such functions where actual utility is built from just raw damage, it'll be difficult. Players nowadays expect a certain amount of numerical balance, in particular in PvE. Meaning that it's not okay if the design just assumes that come Extreme or higher, all your casters will be Black Mages, all your PRanged will be Machinist, etc. That'd be one way of solving this problem (just hard-lock it maybe even, and mention during character creation that only Black Mage is a high-end raiding caster), but it'd be a pretty awful one tbh.
Yet, it's not really possible to solve this otherwise. The opposite route is usually easier, akin to what GW2 does: Give everyone utility and support functionality. No "pure" DPS exists, and hence the inherent imbalance issues between pure and utility DPS also do not exist.

I don't think this is an issue that can be solved on an individual class level, tbh. First we need to decide whether to eliminate the idea of "pure" DPS. Or whether it should be a role-split thing. Maybe the game hardlocks into "2 pure DPS + 2 support DPS", and then classes get sorted that way instead of 2 melee + 2 ranged or so.

[SakuraMidnight]

I'm on side just removing idea of pure dps from the game. giving them each individual support abilities that give them value. in there own way. we know for a fact alot black mages would actually cry if they actually had to "raise" someone in raid like summoner or red mage. in fact they complain more then they are complaining now with current black mage changes watch actually is good but they dont like idea something they played over and over change they now have learn something new. what they used to playin is changed. even if it is better

I couldnt play black mage in the past cause it was that unforgiving hard to play. i can play it now. they made it way they did so everyone on every system can play it. easy to play but hard to master. but for someone already mastered black mage knows how it plays but over all i i love black mage now. couldnt love it way it was

having black mage constantly at number 1 spot on dps charts or up there is pretty moring specially for raiding

[Allooutrick]

What's amusing is that all DPS could be considered a pure DPS in Evercold if raid buffs are going away.

[SakuraMidnight]

What's amusing is that all DPS could be considered a pure DPS in Evercold if raid buffs are going away.

thats gonna be hard to baliance. doesnt really fix samurai being dull thou

[Carighan]

What's amusing is that all DPS could be considered a pure DPS in Evercold if raid buffs are going away.

Yes and no, we often understand DPS as either being "just damage" or buffing other damage, but in theory there's a vast space to explore depending on how far one wants to push the combat system (say manaregen is relevant and some DPS provide that). But I get what you mean, yeah.

[ThreeBeastSmile]

as for samurai I my major upsets about the job is how it feels to play. lets talk about solo play first thing need understand samurai is squishy as hell. they cannot take many hits. so to survive you have to use third eye a lot, bloodbath and even feint keep yourself alive even bought stack of potions. most dps are very squishy but samurai level of squishiness is probably the worst. 2nd thing you notice is that rotation though long get extremely boring extremely quick. sometimes you find yourself dieng while doing ijutsu. class quest are somewhat hard. most players who play samurai tell you upfront leveling of this job was not most enjoyable experence.

<blink>

If we talk extremely niche PvE where you would be solo'ing something beyond a two-tap gig, SAM unironically gets much more durable with the upgrade to Third Eye at level 82. It was the easiest melee to do lone OC mob chaining for me. I honestly can't relate with your experience when it comes to SAM there, and I actually like SAM more than my main atm lol. There's something calming and zen-like about their rotation, and may as well go with that if I'm working with this current combat system for a while longer.

[SakuraMidnight]

<blink>

If we talk extremely niche PvE where you would be solo'ing something beyond a two-tap gig, SAM unironically gets much more durable with the upgrade to Third Eye at level 82. It was the easiest melee to do lone OC mob chaining for me. I honestly can't relate with your experience when it comes to SAM there, and I actually like SAM more than my main atm lol. There's something calming and zen-like about their rotation, and may as well go with that if I'm working with this current combat system for a while longer.

not to say you've not done this but i level all my jobs and dps jobs equally level by level1-100 so can see how they compare to one another. when get samurai at 50 level up 60 you do so on daily basis well lvl other jobs you notice differences inconsistanys i pretty sure a samarui lover like yourself would love increase in damage. i think its warrented. all dps need give that dopinmine rush of that 1 solid hit does massive damage. however i just dont see it until way later on samurai watch is sad

you have monk at level60 use masterful blizt tornado kick crits does over 9000 damage. but samurai struggles even hit those numbers they hit at least 3k at best thats with hardiest hitting move. not saying class not fun. it is just saying numbers speak for themself doesnt feel rewarding when have go through 8 button rotation use iajutsu feel cheated