Like to see changes for PLD

[Aceofspades]

There are two fundaments being aproched in this thread

Offenisve tanking reduces damage mitigation soo being able to return HP off of high damage numbers, better serve a offensive tank, wich explains why Cohier probably dosent see very many opertunities in wich combineing sw with blood bath as effective. That or hey values the enmity bonus from the added damage over the hp returns.

Blood bath works great if your dealing alot of damage as a tank, but I dont think DPS is PLD's strong suite. There is a reason the devs gave vit as a damage modifier for WAR. This way war can increase dps without decreasing damage mitigation too much. That being said, WAR is definatly far more squishier then PLD , but thats ok as they return HP from heavy crits.

Just an opinion, but WAR's strong suite seems to be cleaning up the trash adds on boss fights, they also do great as frontline dds soo long as they are not stacking enmity gear .

[GreyJorildyn]

BB doesn't do anymore DPS than normal, it just gives you back HP for using WS you are already going to use.

[Aceofspades]

BB doesn't do anymore DPS than normal, it just gives you back HP for using WS you are already going to use.

I know, but in order for it to be worth a damn you must meet two reqs

1) you must need HP, wich in turn means your SW will do less damage anyways

2) you must do decent damage, wich is not PLD's strong point.

[Judge_Xero]

I know, but in order for it to be worth a damn you must meet two reqs

1) you must need HP, wich in turn means your SW will do less damage anyways

2) you must do decent damage, wich is not PLD's strong point.

BB on Spirits is fine. It's not like @ 70% HP your Spirits Within only does 1/2 damage. It's maybe like 15-20% difference.
Plus Spirits and BB have the same cooldown, so why not use it?
Here's a glimps of my 2nd Ability Row
[Phalanx][Spirits Within][Bloodbath][Wardrum]

PLD may not be top of the list for damage, but when built as a DD it's nothing to laugh about. 600+ Spirits Within on Garuda at only 50% health is decent, and I'm far from hitting cap on STR.

I'm planning to be able to hit for around 700 on Ifrit, when I get a better weapon and some Darklight.
Already in the high 5's with Giantsgal and 300 to MND and STR. A Critical is like OMFG

With that said, I think the current system is good enough. There's a cap on how much Enmity the lowest person has vs. the highest and I think that leaves plenty of room to build hate back up (least I've managed too on a few occasions).

I think that the ceiling is 27000ish. Going from 0-27000 before the boss 1 shots all the mages is pretty rough. Not every fight will be like that, but making up for 5 minutes of Nuking and Healing in a few seconds is impossible.

Just why give WHM's an instant Raise ability, when it's a wipe anyways.

It would be funny to see a fight with two PLD. They could cycle Sentinel, Cover and Divine Veil to negate like 70% of damage over a whole fight. Then if one died, the other will still have hate.

[Aceofspades]

BB on Spirits is fine. It's not like @ 70% HP your Spirits Within only does 1/2 damage. It's maybe like 15-20% difference.
Plus Spirits and BB have the same cooldown, so why not use it?
Here's a glimps of my 2nd Ability Row
[Phalanx][Spirits Within][Bloodbath][Wardrum]

PLD may not be top of the list for damage, but when built as a DD it's nothing to laugh about. 600+ Spirits Within on Garuda at only 50% health is decent, and I'm far from hitting cap on STR.

I'm planning to be able to hit for around 700 on Ifrit, when I get a better weapon and some Darklight.
Already in the high 5's with Giantsgal and 300 to MND and STR. A Critical is like OMFG



I think that the ceiling is 27000ish. Going from 0-27000 before the boss 1 shots all the mages is pretty rough. Not every fight will be like that, but making up for 5 minutes of Nuking and Healing in a few seconds is impossible.

Just why give WHM's an instant Raise ability, when it's a wipe anyways.

It would be funny to see a fight with two PLD. They could cycle Sentinel, Cover and Divine Veil to negate like 70% of damage over a whole fight. Then if one died, the other will still have hate.

Please understand, I do not wish to discredit your ideals. Basicly what you are atempting to do is strengthen a quality that is naturaly weak to PLD. There is abosolutly nothing wrong with this. But just like each job and class , everything has a place in battle. A DPS strong pld dose offer an element to a fight, but not one of great value in a party vs boss set up. maybe in a pvp set up can this tatic be of value, but when elements of battle can be controlled simply be each maintaining their role in the fight, it is safe to asume that it best serves the group if one strengthens their indivdual role in that party set up. PLD is un deniably the strongest 1v1 player v boss tank in the game. Highest damage mitigation , strongest enmity hold and great party supporter. Its undeniable weakness, however, is DPS. Naturally weak to the realm of DD , pld makes up for lack of dd by geting great enmity returns off of much less DPS as compaired to its WAR counterpart. This is possable due to non dps enmity multipliers and abilities that retain strong , fast enmity, but dose not deal damage. To try and counter this aspect on PLD, where possable, will take alot of sacrafice in damage mitigation.

That being said, GLD would be the most simple and obvious answer to PVP if you wish to keep your sword and shield, not quite a PLD but requires less sacrifice for higher dps output.

[Judge_Xero]

Please understand, I do not wish to discredit your ideals. Basicly what you are atempting to do is strengthen a quality that is naturaly weak to PLD. There is abosolutly nothing wrong with this. But just like each job and class , everything has a place in battle. A DPS strong pld dose offer an element to a fight, but not one of great value in a party vs boss set up. maybe in a pvp set up can this tatic be of value, but when elements of battle can be controlled simply be each maintaining their role in the fight, it is safe to asume that it best serves the group if one strengthens their indivdual role in that party set up. PLD is un deniably the strongest 1v1 player v boss tank in the game. Highest damage mitigation , strongest enmity hold and great party supporter. Its undeniable weakness, however, is DPS. Naturally weak to the realm of DD , pld makes up for lack of dd by geting great enmity returns off of much less DPS as compaired to its WAR counterpart. This is possable due to non dps enmity multipliers and abilities that retain strong , fast enmity, but dose not deal damage. To try and counter this aspect on PLD, where possable, will take alot of sacrafice in damage mitigation.

That being said, GLD would be the most simple and obvious answer to PVP if you wish to keep your sword and shield, not quite a PLD but requires less sacrifice for higher dps output.

No worries. For the way I like to play Paladin, STR, ATK, VIT and Accuracy are the most important stats.

I focus on a couple key concepts of PLD:

1) Low Cooldowns on WS's
2) 100% Block Rate from Divine Veil
3) Combo Multi's are capped at a low MND value so not a priority

So keeping damage high, and stacking VIT for Block + High Block on shield is my priority.
So IMO, it's a perfectly reasonable way to make a PLD tank.

It's a little strange to me that someone would gear it differently except for Kiting

[Sounsyy]

Just why give WHM's an instant Raise ability, when it's a wipe anyways.

Um, so you can raise a downed party member in 1 second and get back to healing so your tank doesn't die too?

fight with two PLD.

Would love to have fights requiring multiple tanks again like in XI.

[Judge_Xero]

Um, so you can raise a downed party member in 1 second and get back to healing so your tank doesn't die too?

Lol thanks. I was thinking more in the sense of when the Tank is already dead.

[MoarLegion]

Circle Slash for AOE.
Make Outmaneuver a trait instead of an ability.
Fix Sentinel to affect ALL actions instead of just damage.

[Sounsyy]

the Tank is already dead.

Oh... yeah... Lol if your tank is down best hope your blms can nuke boss down before wipe. Only non-OP way I can see to fix that would be having two tanks. Maybe such content will be available or necessary in 2.0.