Class System Blues

[KoujiGeki]

well true anyone can be anything but you do gear up some jobs better than other so that could make you a better Blm than someone else.

[Lux_Rayna]

I think you got his post wrong. He wasnt REALLY comparing the game to 11, he was saying that the amount of skills that are actually unique is too damn low.

Meaning that in 11, a WHM had many skills that no one else had, while here, the only things u get as a WHM (and use often) can be counted on one hand.

You know how ppl run Ifrit with 2 whm? I had run ifrit with no WHM, and just had 2 THM spam cure. We actually won. Granted, because the THM were good, and knew how to do it, but still...
Not counting the Class skills, there is only 2 WHM (out of 5) skills that I use often: Regen and Presence of Mind.

Kinda makes WHM not worth it, if I only get 2 useful skills off it

@OP topic, I like having 1 char that can do everything. When I started playing other MMOs after i stopped with FF11 (being my 1st one) the 1st thing I had to get over, is why on earth they ask us to have different chars for different jobs.
Its like having a separate email for every person you want to email.

This is why I say its silly to compare at all. White Mage was a standalone job in XI, while its a branch-off from Conjurer in XIV. So yes, duh WHM wont have as many skills in this game because MOST of them (currently) come from the conjurer class. What was WHM in XI is Conj+WHM in XIV. And though he said I was offended I really wasn't, just being blunt about the subject. Its fruitless and silly to compare the two games ever. As I said, Final Fantasy titles have always taken very different approaches from each other. WHM in XIV does not have the same "meaning". If you must compare WHM from XIV to anything else, you'd have to include cnj as part of it otherwise its not even close to a fair comparison.

In terms of "unique" skills, I would say that its less about that and more about the mechanics. Anyone with a brain knows playing thm is a lot different than playing blm, that playing cnj is a lot different than playing whm, and that playing arc is way different than playing bard. It may only be a few additional skills, but those few skills essentially change the mechanics entirely. That is what the armory/job system is about. But if we had stopped using XI was a base of comparison, we would all see that. Case in point you used two THMs to replace a cnj/whm. But I guarantee you they had to play entirely different than a cnj because their access to certain resources are different.

Its not the skills thats the problem, its the way ppl play. Is it SE's fault that everyone played cnj like a WHM? No! Is it SE's fault that thms insisted on playing like BLM's? No! But why did they do this? Because of XI. Yet once you really look at it, mechanically THM is nothing like BLM, Cnj is nothing like WHM, so there was always uniqueness staring us in the face but we refused to see it.

[Skies]

I don't mean unique as in unique personality, I simply mean that everyone is the same ability-wise, which can be good, but is also boring. Just imagine if in Final Fantasy X, every character had the same abilites, what would be the purpose of adding them to your party? You already have all the spells, skills, etc. that you need. . . That's all I meant.

Oh god.
Oh god.
I mean I can get your point (I disagree with this thread, btw, but I understand what you mean), but could you have not chosen a WORSE comparison?
Really?
You get to pick the one FF game where everyone can learn every single ability at the same time since they all share the same Sphere Grid and aside from where they start (and they start very close together in the International version) to mention 'characters being unique'?
I mean... Each character was more unique in FFV than they were in FFX, specially at higher levels.

[Renen]

This is why I say its silly to compare at all. White Mage was a standalone job in XI, while its a branch-off from Conjurer in XIV. So yes, duh WHM wont have as many skills in this game because MOST of them (currently) come from the conjurer class. What was WHM in XI is Conj+WHM in XIV. And though he said I was offended I really wasn't, just being blunt about the subject. Its fruitless and silly to compare the two games ever. As I said, Final Fantasy titles have always taken very different approaches from each other. WHM in XIV does not have the same "meaning". If you must compare WHM from XIV to anything else, you'd have to include cnj as part of it otherwise its not even close to a fair comparison.

In terms of "unique" skills, I would say that its less about that and more about the mechanics. Anyone with a brain knows playing thm is a lot different than playing blm, that playing cnj is a lot different than playing whm, and that playing arc is way different than playing bard. It may only be a few additional skills, but those few skills essentially change the mechanics entirely. That is what the armory/job system is about. But if we had stopped using XI was a base of comparison, we would all see that. Case in point you used two THMs to replace a cnj/whm. But I guarantee you they had to play entirely different than a cnj because their access to certain resources are different.

Its not the skills thats the problem, its the way ppl play. Is it SE's fault that everyone played cnj like a WHM? No! Is it SE's fault that thms insisted on playing like BLM's? No! But why did they do this? Because of XI. Yet once you really look at it, mechanically THM is nothing like BLM, Cnj is nothing like WHM, so there was always uniqueness staring us in the face but we refused to see it.

But even then, the amount of skills that I actually use in a party is so low...
Here are just some skills that WHM can use (it just so happens FF11 whm have them, but thats not the point):
Bar-element
Shell
Reraise
Dia (or any low-tier single target white magic)
In reality, in a singe fight WHM/CNJ use only 1/3 of all the spells they get. 11 (14 for WHM)

[Paddle]

But even then, the amount of skills that I actually use in a party is so low...
Here are just some skills that WHM can use (it just so happens FF11 whm have them, but thats not the point):
Bar-element
Shell
Reraise
Dia (or any low-tier single target white magic)
In reality, in a singe fight WHM/CNJ use only 1/3 of all the spells they get. 11 (14 for WHM)

You know I posted my concerns about this. I've been a healer for the past 10 years. Little worried with looking at the list of what whm could do. I would like more abilities in my arsenal. However! It got me thinking...I mean cap level is only at 50 right now. I would imagine that 2.0 is going to tweak/add abilities. After Yoshida increases the level cap, all classes/jobs will have more depth to them.

[Artiss2k]

I agree with the OP about most of the points made. I really don't like everyone being everything max level. It does kinda ruin the uniqueness of individuals. I used to love the feeling of knowing I was like one of 3 paladins in my linkshell in XI and one of 2 Samurais for a loong time. if everyone is just everything it's like what's the point?

I also do NOT want it limited to one job per character because i don't feel like trying to figure out who everyone's alts are, plus having to re-do story elements everytime you want to test out another job. Someone mentioned on these boards before about an idea of certain "Jobs" locking out another. level any class you want as high as you want but for instance if you decide to go paladin you would "lock out" dark knight (if it was in the game) they got a lot of hate for that post but I like the idea, stand up, make a choice and stand by it, and specialize in that area. for me it would be cool for it to be that way and be awesome for MY IMMERSIONS!!!

Every one shouldn't be every single darn job, especially max level. multiple sure, but all of them? perhaps as level caps increase you could not "lock out" the other job but have it not able to go past a certain point. like crafting in xi. just as example once again if the level cap went to 60 and you took pld beyond 50, the other job opposite of it would lock at 50 and you couldn't go past that. if at some point you wanted to level that other job then you have a decision to make, and have some kind of quest or something to pick up that other discipline and your pld would lock back down to 50 as you leveled the other job past.

I don't know, but there needs to be something, I've just never liked the idea of everyone maxing everything. that's what killed XI for me, when it was so easy to level everyone had every darn job.

[Drunk-Bandit]

I don't get the whole point of this mess.... lol get sick of rolling alts in another mmorpgs because of their limitations don't bring em in this game plz... really don't see a logical point in it... ~.~

I agree with the OP about most of the points made. I really don't like everyone being everything max level. It does kinda ruin the uniqueness of individuals. I used to love the feeling of knowing I was like one of 3 paladins in my linkshell in XI and one of 2 Samurais for a loong time. if everyone is just everything it's like what's the point?

Those 3 paladins might not always be around... Stuff happens... RL... Boredom from the game etc... then what are you going do pay for an alt just to level the class or would it make more sense to already have it on your main char which can basically do everything without the non sense of going through the storyline again lol...

[darkstarpoet1]

Every one shouldn't be every single darn job, especially max level. multiple sure, but all of them?

the only reason this happens is because of the stupid fast leveling in this game and power leveling. thie is something that yoshi brought upon himself. i hope in 2.0 each level takes hours to get and then you will have less people hitting max in any class. this is the fault of the gimme everything now crew that there's such a high percentage of people with every class at cap. it's something that i hope yoshi takes into consideration in 2.0 and makes the leveling much slower.

the problem isn't that someone can max every job. the problem is you can start and max every battle class in less than a month that's an issue. if the leveling took longer to do then it'd be rare to see people with all classes at cap.

[Mikita]

I agree with the OP about most of the points made. I really don't like everyone being everything max level. It does kinda ruin the uniqueness of individuals. I used to love the feeling of knowing I was like one of 3 paladins in my linkshell in XI and one of 2 Samurais for a loong time. if everyone is just everything it's like what's the point?

If my linkshell is anything typical, then most people like playing certain classes and therefore then to get better at them because of practice.

Among our core members I know that...
We have someone who plays PLD, WAR and WHM.
Someone else plays PLD, BLM and WHM.
Another likes DRG and BLM.
Yet another likes MNK most of all but will sometimes play WAR.
I personally like WHM, BLM and BRD.

I'd say we all bring different strengths to our LS and we are all quite unique despite many people being level capped already.


Limiting our choices only limits our fun... it doesn't make anyone special.

[Mikita]

the only reason this happens is because of the stupid fast leveling in this game and power leveling. thie is something that yoshi brought upon himself. i hope in 2.0 each level takes hours to get and then you will have less people hitting max in any class. this is the fault of the gimme everything now crew that there's such a high percentage of people with every class at cap. it's something that i hope yoshi takes into consideration in 2.0 and makes the leveling much slower.

the problem isn't that someone can max every job. the problem is you can start and max every battle class in less than a month that's an issue. if the leveling took longer to do then it'd be rare to see people with all classes at cap.

This could be more of a player base desire issue that is driving design decisions.
When a customer wants something, do you give it to them even if it is a bad choice?

Many people think that all the good stuff and good gear only happens at endgame. To them endgame is where the fun starts, so they want to get there as quickly as possible.

And I think that is why SE has allowed the power leveling mechanic to continue to exist for those customers who want it... even if there are those at SE who might feel it's not the right way to enjoy a game.

At least not everyone wants or uses power leveling. That choice is up to the individual player according to their idea of fun.